# Discussion thread for the "Polls only" thread (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 16, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636 "2024-02-16T02:56:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 292
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2025, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5822 "2025-02-23T18:12:48Z")
I’ve been to a bunch of stadium rock concerts and sports events that were in the 50,000-70,000 range, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5823 "2025-02-24T13:50:04Z")
Hard to pick only three Gene Wilder films. I left off _Blazing Saddles_ because his was more a supporting role and went for the obvious triumvirate of _The Producers_, _Willy Wonka_ and _Young Frankenstein_. But _Stir Crazy_ doesn’t get enough credit for how funny it is. ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5824 "2025-02-24T14:29:42Z")
Oktoberfest & other local fall festival celebrations in Europe were unbelievably crowded. Can’t even estimate how many people were there when I went a few years back. I recall getting caught up one crowd to the point where I was being propelled along involuntarily and had to fight to get out. Never again. Also went to a couple sports stadiums and large, nationwide conferences when I was younger. For the most part I stay away from crowds. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5825 "2025-02-24T15:44:29Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I left off _Blazing Saddles_ because his was more a supporting role “Little bastard shot me in the ass!” is enough to put _Blazing Saddles_ on my list. I don’t like Willy Wonka at all. The one I wanted to include was _Silver Streak_. Biggest crowd was likely Springsteen at the L.A. Coliseum. Pushing 100K. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5826 "2025-02-24T16:05:34Z")
I had no recollection of Gene Wilder being in Bonnie and Clyde, so I went and found the clip. It is excellent, and very Gene Wilder. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5827 "2025-02-24T18:54:39Z")
Happy, Dopey, Sleepy, Sneezy, Bashful, Doc… That’s 6. I can’t think of #7. I cannot name a single Dwarf from The Hobbit from memory. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5828 "2025-02-24T19:05:44Z")
Grumpy ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5829 "2025-02-24T19:59:20Z")
I remembered Thorin, Oin, Gloin, Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur. When I checked my answers, I was really surprised that I had forgotten Balin, and Fili and Kili. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5830 "2025-02-24T20:44:50Z")
I forgot Bifur, Bombur and Bofur- and Dori. I remembered Dwalin. They are all from ancient Norse. > **[How To Memorize All The Names Of The Dwarves From 'The Hobbit' — Nelson Dellis](https://www.nelsondellis.com/blog/2012/12/10/how-to-memorize-all-the-names-of-the-dwarves-from-the-hobbit)** > > If you're gonna go see 'The Hobbit' in theaters next week (which if you aren't, you need to seriously re-evaluate your life priorities), you'll need some help memorizing some of the main characters' names. There are a lot of them. Especially... ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5831 "2025-02-24T20:58:44Z")
I have wondered,. but I don’t have a clear opinion on which it ought to be. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5832 "2025-02-24T21:02:20Z")
Given Old English dweorg, it should be “dwergh,” plural “dwerghs,” like “laugh, laughs.” We had a lot of forms to choose from back in the day. From the Middle English Dictionary: dwergh n. Also (1) dwerh, dweruȝ, dwæruh, dwargh, dreugh, draugh, dwerk; (2) dwerf, dweruf, dwarf, dwarof, dworf, dwelf, dwerþ; (3) dweri, dwerȝe, dweorȝe, dweorge, dworȝe; (4) dwerw(e, dwerwh(e, dwerewe, dwerowe, dwarwe, dwarow, dworow, dreu, durwe. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5833 "2025-02-24T21:03:09Z")
The form “dwarves” rather than “dwarfs” is due entirely to Tolkien. He liked irregular forms (preferring “rooves” to “roofs” for example). Before _The Hobbit_ was published, “dwarfs” was the standard plural. An editor of _The Hobbit_ corrected his text to “dwarfs”, citing the Oxford English Dictionary as his authority. Tolkien angrily wrote back “I _wrote_ the Oxford English Dictionary!”. (He contributed to the dictionary, mostly on words starting with W, in 1918-1919.) He later said he wished he’d used the more ancient form “dwarrow”/“dwarrows” rather than “dwarf”/“dwarves”. For the same reason, he preferred “elves” to “elfs”, and used forms like “elven” rather than “elfin”. ETA: this is what he said in the appendix to Lord of the Rings: > It may be observed that in this book as in The Hobbit the form dwarves is used, although the dictionaries tell us that the plural of dwarf is dwarfs. It should be dwarrows (or dwerrows), if singular and plural had each gone its own way down the years, as have man and men, or goose and geese. But we no longer speak of a dwarf as often as we do of a man, or even of a goose, and memories have not been fresh enough among Men to keep hold of a special plural for a race now abandoned to folk-tales, where at least a shadow of truth is preserved, or at last to nonsense stories in which they have become mere figures of fun. But in the Third Age something of their old character and power is still glimpsed, if already a little dimmed; these are the descendents of the Naugrim of the Elder Days, in whose hearts still burns ancient fire of Aule the Smith, and the embers smolder of their long grudge against the Elves; and in whose hands still lives the skill in work of stone that none have surpassed. > It is to mark this that I have ventured to use the form dwarves, and remove them perhaps, from the sillier tales of these latter days. Dwarrows would have been better; but I have used that form only in the name Dwarrowdelf, to represent the name of Moria in the Common Speech: Phurunargian. For that meant ‘Dwarf-delving’ and yet was already a word of antique form. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5834 "2025-02-24T23:10:29Z")
The three I missed were Dori, Nori, and Ori. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5835 "2025-02-24T23:24:02Z")
I read Tolkien’s remarks on “dwarfs” vs “dwarves” (he described the latter as “a personal bit of bad grammar”) long before I ever noticed that Disney used “dwarfs”. ---
**Author:** ![Bayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bayaker/32/3454_2.png) [@Bayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2025, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5836 "2025-02-24T23:53:09Z")
I rattled off six dwarf names right away, but couldn’t remember the seventh. Google tells me it was _Bashful_. Never had any interest in, or knowledge of, _The Hobbit_. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5837 "2025-02-25T04:35:44Z")
As a kid we had a dart board with the baseball game on the back. I played it a bunch then but haven’t played it in decades. Roger Waters: The Wall Live in Berlin had 350,000 people according to Wikipedia. I seem to recall estimates at the time of more than that. That’s the biggest crowd I’ve been in. I was near Times Square on NYE but never in the crowd and I have no desire to. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5838 "2025-02-25T05:11:02Z")
I said I could remember 6, not because I tried just now. Every time I’ve tried to list them, I always get to 6 and can’t remember the 7th. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5839 "2025-02-25T12:19:13Z")
Crowd estimates are always larger than the real thing. Estimate it yourself by assuming 1 sq m (or 1 sq yd) per person in which you are not quite touching the person next to you. For a million people, you would need a space 1000 x 1000 (m or yd) full of people at that density. If you’re watching a 5 km long parade and everyone has 1 m horizontal space - that’s only 5000 spectators (on one side of the street - one deep). Even if you have five deep crowds on both sides of the street - that’s only 50,000 (and the media will report “hundreds of thousands”). ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5840 "2025-02-25T14:34:30Z")
Okay, that rally i got swept up in? It was densely enough packed that i worried a little i might be crushed. I was always touching a couple of people. I got out of it by following a large aggressive man who bulled his way through the crowd. He was leading his family, and i tagged along with his kids. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/5841 "2025-02-25T14:59:48Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > Crowd estimates are always larger than the real thing. Estimate it yourself by assuming 1 sq m (or 1 sq yd) per person in which you are not quite touching the person next to you. For a million people, you would need a space 1000 x 1000 (m or yd) full of people at that density. I think you’re _significantly_ underestimating the density. I don’t care if I touch the people I went with & in those large crowds you end up shoulder to shoulder, touching the random stranger next to you. Don’t forget all the kids sitting on their parent’s shoulders; two bodies in one footprint. > [@Mark\_Finn](#): > > If you’re watching a 5 km long parade and everyone has 1 m horizontal space - that’s only 5000 spectators (on one side of the street - one deep). Even if you have five deep crowds on both sides of the street - that’s only 50,000 (and the media will report “hundreds of thousands”). You’re also greatly underestimating crowd size in this metric. Even if the sidewalk isn’t that deep (& most sidewalks I’ve seen in cities will hold more people across than just five but there can be people looking out the windows of the floors above ground level which acts as a crowd multiplier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636.md?page=291) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636.md?page=293)