# Discussion thread for the "Polls only" thread (Part 2) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 16, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636 "2024-02-16T02:56:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/161 "2024-02-24T16:58:32Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > I always understood “why they may not be **lawfully** joined together” as “one of them is already married or engaged to someone else”. One could frequently get away with marrying a first cousin. The authorities tended to tread bigamy more harshly. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/F2TYGU6OcXk/hqdefault.jpg "Wrong Church") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2TYGU6OcXk) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/162 "2024-02-24T17:03:17Z")
I could swear it was definitively traced to the 1972 election. I saw a report that even replayed the first news story to use blue for Democrats and red for Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/163 "2024-02-24T17:34:20Z")
It looks like the color choice [stabilized around '00](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/03/heres-why-republicans-red-and-democrats-blue/6144842002/). Prior to '72, color televisions in homes had not reached 50% penetration, and newspapers were still fully single plate or spot color for most editions, so color-coding stuff was less prevalent. Blue and red on a B&W TV look like the same color. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/164 "2024-02-24T17:40:05Z")
I volunteered to help with my local elections, and just attended a training session. One of the points the town clerk brought up is that the Democratic ballot is pink, and the Republican ballot is baby blue, and a certain fraction of voters will think we have handed them the wrong ballot, and how to handle that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/165 "2024-02-24T17:40:32Z")
Yeah, I could be wrong about the year, but 2000 seems late to me. That was practically yesterday, amiright? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/166 "2024-02-24T17:53:50Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I always understood this was more about grandma coming forward to announce that they’re actually third cousins, but didn’t realize, or whatever relationship is just inside the bounds of forbidden. If you’re in a jurisdiction where first cousins can marry, there’s little point. They could be half siblings and not know it. But it seems to me that Grandma should have told them this well before the wedding. And that if Alex is already married to Pat somebody should have told Alex’s additional intended this beforehand. Springing it on them at the wedding, in either case, strikes me as pretty nasty. I can’t remember whether I’ve ever been at a wedding at which that was part of the ceremony, so as there was no option for that or for other I didn’t vote in that one. I’m sure I’d have noticed if someone had jumped up to forbid it, though; so I voted in that part of the poll. – it can be cruel for the survivors to watch somebody slowly die on life support, in severe pain, or in some versions of severe dementia, also. Some loving loved ones would like to be able to say ‘please help them get to the end of this gently.’ I’m aware that it’s difficult to write laws to make sure that that’s the motive in specific cases; but the ‘cruelty to the survivors’ issue isn’t all on one side. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/167 "2024-02-24T17:53:51Z")
Everyone born in '02 in the US is old enough to buy booze. The large majority of people born in '06 will be old enough to vote this year. ---
**Author:** ![pjd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pjd/32/3009_2.png) [@pjd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjd)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/168 "2024-02-24T19:35:00Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Springing it on them at the wedding, in either case, strikes me as pretty nasty. This is why it’s a common theme in soap operas & dramas. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/169 "2024-02-24T19:36:13Z")
Not certain, but I feel like “par” predates its use in golf. I’m guessing it’s Latin, via French possibly? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/170 "2024-02-24T20:08:10Z")
I did a bit of googling. Some sources claim that it does indeed come from golf, but I found [this on Quora](https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-origin-of-the-phrase-up-to-par) that claims it comes from the Stock Exchange term meaning the face value of a share or security. Anyway, I’m not bothered by “up to par”; but I am a little bothered when people talk about something “appealing to the lowest common denominator,” since the lowest common denominator is as high or higher than all the individual denominators. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/171 "2024-02-24T20:16:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > it comes from the Stock Exchange term meaning the face value of a share or security This was always my understanding once I’d work for a startup - my non-public stock’s “par value” was what some accountant declared it was worth, not it’s actual worth, which until the company issued “real” stock was worth jackshit. If the value came up to par, that was a very good thing, and not really very expected unless the company had a blowout offering when they went public. I once held non-public stock in a company I worked for worth a par value of probably $20k. I don’t recall exact details, this was 30 years ago, but the company was acquired and the stock was reverse split multiple ways. My stock was worth like $45 after. Definitely not up to “par”. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/172 "2024-02-24T20:38:51Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Everyone born in '02 in the US is old enough to buy booze. The large majority of people born in '06 will be old enough to vote this year. Yeah, but it’s mean to rub it in like that. I could be remembering wrong, but it seems like they used to alternate colors way back before the turn of the century, when we were…well, not _young_, exactly, but less old. The fact that our state finally approved a “death with dignity” law is one of the things that keeps my spouse going sometimes. If he thought that he could be suffering and helpless to do anything about it once his cancer progresses, I think he might be tempted to take matters into his own hands while he’s still mobile. As it is, there are stringent requirements to be sure that people are both in the final stages of a terminal illness and making the decision for themselves. This means that a person with severe dementia can’t choose it, but until the disease progresses to the point that life expectancy is less than six months, they don’t qualify. I don’t see any real way around that; you have to be sure the patient is making a free choice and hasn’t changed their mind. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/173 "2024-02-24T20:41:54Z")
The story I heard was that CNN decided to use red for republicans and blue for democrats in 2000 and intended to switch in the next presidential election. But symbols have a way of getting solidified. Looking at ngrams, the phrases “red state” and “blue state” did not take off until 2000 Bob Dole campaign buttons, 1996 > **[1996 Collection of 13 Different Bob Dole Campaign Buttons](https://www.loriferber.com/amp/bob-dole-campaign-buttons-thirteen-pins.html)** > > Collection of thirteen (13) different Bob Dole for President from the Republican candidate's 1996 campaign. Great selection. All original. > > This is part of a large collection of Bob Dole campaign buttons we acquired and have finally found the time... ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/174 "2024-02-24T23:38:24Z")
I wouldn’t be me if I didn’t have biological needs and desires. I don’t want to stop being me. (Though I know I’m going to have to, eventually. That’s biology. Feed the remains to something alive, please.) I shop and sometimes work downtown (that’s where the farmers’ markets are), but I don’t live there. There wasn’t an option for that combination. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/175 "2024-02-25T00:01:11Z")
The closest thing we have to “downtown” is a quaint Gold Rush era historic district mostly populated by small boutiques, antique stores, trendy restaurants, and bars. Not really the kind of place where one could do their everyday shopping. But I’ll occasionally have lunch at one of the restaurants if I’m in the area around lunch time. And my usual reason to go to that area is to shop at the Saturday morning farmers market, although I don’t consider that to be a downtown business since they’re not their permanently (Although I think some of the businesses might have booths at the market, now that I think about it, i.e. the bakery has a booth selling sourdough and cookies). ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/176 "2024-02-25T00:10:06Z")
When it comes to the extremist third party (of either flavor) I voted against working with them. Because let’s face it, if they demand I take their position in entirety with zero discussion, they’ll be just the sort of disaster MAGA / Tea Party has been in American politics. Which I kind of assumed was the intended point. They will end up, by virtue of not knowing any sort of compromise, of blowing up key, unavoidable legislation. And that’s assuming they (or for that matter, -I-) stay bought. No, better to say no, and plan for an election cycle or two in the future when they’ve blown themselves up. Granted, things can get very bad in the meantime depending on the oposition, but that’s how our system works. Poorly in other words. Some minor quibbling based on how extreme one side or the other variants are, and/or in the current post-Trump world or some other branch where the parties could be wrong within reasonable, survivable norms. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/177 "2024-02-25T01:11:34Z")
Where I live (on the side of a mountain) Downtown is uptown. Although there really isn’t much Downtown uptown. The city really doesn’t have a focus. The original asistencia is in the really crappy part of town down by the freeway. The business district is up the hill on the main drag, past the college, high school and golf course. The bottom floor of the original hotel in town is now home to a boutique, an Italian deli and a couple of funky clothing stores. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/178 "2024-02-25T03:09:34Z")
Los Angeles has a downtown. There’s a lot of cultural events downtown or downtown adjacent. Other than that, people only go there for work or legal needs. On the other hand, every community in LA County as something equivalent to downtown. There are about 6-8 within a 15 minute drive for me. You can find everything from ballet to farmers markets. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/179 "2024-02-25T03:38:06Z")
I interpreted it as the original central shopping area of any of the small towns near me. Which for some of them is still the only shopping area (scattered home businesses excepted, they’re all over the place.) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636/180 "2024-02-25T04:22:46Z")
Downtown is not necessarily the same as “the retail area.” That could refer to an area with lots of big box stores and fast food outlets, designed for driving but not walking. Downtown is what _used_ to be the major retail area of shops and offices and banks and restaurants and movie theaters and such, back in the Good Old Days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-thread-for-the-polls-only-thread-part-2/997636.md?page=10)