# \[Discussion\] World Series of Poker **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 31, 2009, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247 "2009-05-31T07:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/141 "2009-07-16T01:31:32Z")
I have some poison ivy in a lot that I own. I’ll give you some of that for free. In fact, I might pay to get rid of it. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/142 "2009-07-16T06:14:59Z")
Seating for final table in November: **2009 November Nine** : Seat 1: Darvin Moon Seat 2: James Akenhead Seat 3: Phil Ivey Seat 4: Kevin Schaffel Seat 5: Steven Begleiter Seat 6: Eric Buchman Seat 7: Joe Cada Seat 8: Antoine Saout Seat 9: Happy Shulman **Chip Counts** : Darvin Moon: 43,700,000 Eric Buchman: 36,300,000 Steven Begleiter: 28,195,000 Jeff Shulman: 20,510,000 Joseph Cada: 13,620,000 Kevin Schaffel: 13,080,000 Antoine Saout: 10,200,000 Phil Ivey: 10,100,000 James Akenhead: 5,760,000 So yeah, I have to wait til November to watch Ivey bust-out in two hours. You wait and see, mark my words. :’( ---
**Author:** ![straggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@straggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straggler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/143 "2009-07-16T07:34:45Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > 1. It’s a lot less painful to read about the beats happening to someone else now that I’ve played enough to have them happen to me. My pain in losing $100 on a bad beat is much more painful than someone else’s AA getting outdrawn on the river. What about having your Aces cracked on the bubble for the final table of the WSOP Main Event? Having just gone through it, I doubt poor **Jordan Smith** is going to have much patience listening to anyone’s bad beat stories ever again! ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/144 "2009-07-16T07:47:25Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > What about having your Aces cracked on the bubble for the final table of the WSOP Main Event? It’s hilarious. I work in a casino and we get people walking out the door screaming obscenities all the time. It’s hilarious. They all think they’re WSOP material yet can’t handle busting out of a hole-in-the-wall $15 tournament without throwing a tantrum. ETA: Congrats to Phil Ivey! ---
**Author:** ![straggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@straggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straggler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/145 "2009-07-16T08:22:29Z")
If my calculations are correct, Ivey needs to finish 5th or better to overtake Jamie Gold and become the highest all-time live tournament money winner. According to [this list](http://www.pokernews.com/news/2009/01/pokernews-top-10-list-all-time-money-earners-1037.htm) compiled in January 2009, the top 6 live tournament money earners are: 1. **Jamie Gold** – $12,170,024 2. **Daniel Negreanu** – $11,203,152 3. **Phil Hellmuth** – $10,744,988 4. **Joe Hachem** – $10,744,616 5. **Allen Cunningham** – $10,341,752 6. **Phil Ivey** – $10,034,351 According to the Hendon Mob database, [Ivey](http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=127) has since earned an additional $397,894, compared to [Jamie Gold](http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=42814) who has added $20,276. That puts their revised (and up-to-date) totals at: **Jamie Gold** : $12,190,300 **Phil Ivey** : $10,432,245 That leaves **Ivey** $1,758,055 short of **Gold**. [Here are the payouts](http://www.pokernews.com/wsop/2009/event-57/payouts/) for the 2009 WSOP Main Event, with the 5th place finisher getting $1,953,395. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/146 "2009-07-16T13:10:57Z")
> [@straggler](#): > > What about having your Aces cracked on the bubble for the final table of the WSOP Main Event? > > Having just gone through it, I doubt poor **Jordan Smith** is going to have much patience listening to anyone’s bad beat stories ever again! What was also painful was that he had AA just 10 minutes before and didn’t get any action on it. Tough loss. What completely astounded me was Kopp going out in 12th place. He was sitting pretty in the top 4 or 5 with over 20 million chips, and throws it all away on a baby flush with 3-5, losing to Q-J. It was an incredibly stupid move that cost him a shitload of money and sent him packing. It’s also an illustration of why I could never play in that kind of tourney. One mistake at the wrong time can completely undo 6 straight days of playing great poker. Don’t get me wrong, he made almost $900,000, but to throw away what should have been a certain final table slot for a 3-5 baby flush was a huge mistake. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/147 "2009-11-05T19:13:04Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Seating for final table in November: > > **2009 November Nine** : > Seat 1: Darvin Moon > Seat 2: James Akenhead > Seat 3: Phil Ivey > Seat 4: Kevin Schaffel > Seat 5: Steven Begleiter > Seat 6: Eric Buchman > Seat 7: Joe Cada > Seat 8: Antoine Saout > Seat 9: Happy Shulman > > **Chip Counts** : > Darvin Moon: 43,700,000 > Eric Buchman: 36,300,000 > Steven Begleiter: 28,195,000 > Jeff Shulman: 20,510,000 > Joseph Cada: 13,620,000 > Kevin Schaffel: 13,080,000 > Antoine Saout: 10,200,000 > Phil Ivey: 10,100,000 > James Akenhead: 5,760,000 > > So yeah, I have to wait til November to watch Ivey bust-out in two hours. You wait and see, mark my words. 😢 Time to reactivate a semi-zombie thread. These chip counts do not match other I have seen published on the net: Darvin Moon 58,930,000 Eric Buchman 34,800,000 Begleiter, Steven 29,885,000 Jeff Shulman 19,580,000 Joseph Cada 13,215,000 Kevin Schaffel 12,390,000 Phil Ivey 9,765,000 Antoine Saout 9,500,000 James Akenhead 6,800,000 Avg Chip stack = 21.6 Million Based on what I have seen on espn, I think Jeff Shulman is going to win the Main Event. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/148 "2009-11-05T19:52:54Z")
It is highly possible my chip counts were incorrect. I was reporting them pretty much live. When is the final table taking place? ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/149 "2009-11-05T21:01:36Z")
Just doing a little surfing, apparently Jeff Shulman has some issues with Harrahs and says he will auction the “bracelet” for charity if he should happen to win. some sort of protest of TPTB of the WSoP and they way they treat the players. He goes on to say that he doesn’t like the way players were turned away for the fourth day of Day 1. (Day 1d). That was discussed earlier in this thread. The players start at noon Vegas time on [Saturday](http://wsop.com/news/2009/Oct/2569/GUIDE-TO-THE-WSOP-MAIN-EVENT-FINAL-TABLE.html). They play until two players are left, and they players go head-to-head on Monday, 10 pm vegas time. 10 pm? I haven’t been able to confirm the blinds and antes, but from the poker blogs, it looks likes they stopped at 120K/240K and 30K antes. 1 orbit = 730K. So Akenhead, the small stack, has less then 10 orbits. And five players have less than 20 orbits. there should be a lot of action early in the session. What happens if they get to the final three, and two players go all in and the biggest stack calls? The biggest stack could win the WSOP right then and there. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/150 "2009-11-05T22:03:20Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I haven’t been able to confirm the blinds and antes, but from the poker blogs, it looks likes they stopped at 120K/240K and 30K antes. 1 orbit = 730K. So Akenhead, the small stack, has less then 10 orbits. And five players have less than 20 orbits. there should be a lot of action early in the session. Ah, the joys of tournament structures. At the stage where we determine where the money goes, there’s the list amount of skillful play possible. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/151 "2009-11-05T22:28:57Z")
Its not the tournament’s fault that the big stack has about 6 Million more than the five smallest stacks combined. If the November nine were all around the avg stack, there would be plenty of maneuvering. And the players take far too long to make decisions. Going “into the tank” for minutes at a time is insane, especially aroung “bubble” time. I think I read in the blogs around the money bubble, when the tables were playing hand to hand, that they played 9 hands in two hours or some other BS. Slow play upsets the chips/blinds ratio more than anything else. 120 minute for each level is totally reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/152 "2009-11-05T22:38:16Z")
Actually, it was 9 hands in 90 minutes from the [pokernews blog](http://www.pokernews.com/wsop/2009/event-57/day4/page12.htm). The tournament clcok was stopped during this time. If I was an average to big stack at this time, I would have gone back to my room to take a nap and let them blind me out for one orbit. I think 30 hands per hour is typical at most poker rooms. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/153 "2009-11-06T01:15:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Ah, the joys of tournament structures. Don’t you mean, “Ah, the joys of _a bad_ tournament structure.”? If the rise of the blinds were to have been slowed later in the tournament, sure it would take longer, but it’s not like no one would bust out ever just because the blinds aren’t eating them alive. In the National Heads-Up Championship the blinds were stopped once they got to a certain point. Do they not do that at the World Series? ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/154 "2009-11-06T01:34:36Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > In the National Heads-Up Championship the blinds were stopped once they got to a certain point. Do they not do that at the World Series? According to this [page](http://www.pokernews.com/wsop/2009/event-57/blinds/day8/), they have at least 3 more levels after the current level. The last listed blinds level is 250K/500K 50K ante. There are nearly 200 millions chips in play. If the final two have a 50/50 split, those blinds and ante represent only ~1% of a players stack per orbit. Of course, an orbit only takes two hands. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/155 "2009-11-06T01:40:38Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Don’t you mean, “Ah, the joys of _a bad_ tournament structure.”? No, actually. The WSOP main event is amongst the best tournament structures available, and it is still crap. It’s a tendency that pretty much every tournament structure has shared since the beginning - you get a lot of play early on, when it matters the least - the average stack has dozens or hundreds of big blinds in the early stages - and you steadily decrease depths of stacks until the point where, due to a top heavy structure, almost all of the serious money is distributed at the point where there’s the least amount of skill involved. The very nature of a slow start, fast finish, top heavy tournament is designed to ensure that the most important parts of the tournament are the parts where a skilled player has the least edge. It’s fundamentally a stupid system. The WSOP ME is actually amongst the least crappy versions of this available, and it still sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/156 "2009-11-06T01:42:45Z")
**notfrommensa** : I completely missed your post talking about how the big stack has so much compared to the little guys and you are right. It’s not the fault of the blind structure. I’m just pissed that Ivey has so few chips to work with. And my earlier proposition that he only lasts two hours max is still in effect. ☹ **Mr. Beef** : I see. So you’re saying a bad structure is the norm and my correction of adding “bad” was just a redundancy? ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/157 "2009-11-07T22:43:34Z")
I’ll put spoilers in for this post, but don’t look any further posts because I have a feeling there will be open spoilers. [spoiler] They are off and running, albeit very slowly. It took 28 hands to see a “turn” and “river” cards, I think there has only been about 5 or 6 hands total that have even seen a flop. Ivey went all-in, pre-flop but was not called. No one eliminated going into first break. Updated chip counts Darvin Moon - 61,575,000 Eric Buchman - 40,660,000 Steven Begleiter - 31,215,000 Jeff Shulman - 15,550,000 Joseph Cada - 11,875,000 Kevin Schaffel - 11,230,000 Phil Ivey - 10,225,000 Antoine Saout - 9,050,000 James Akenhead - 3,485,000 small stack is getting smaller, getting blinded out, orbits are now 810k. 150k/300k 30k antes. Small stack must need a couple of aspirin. Get it Akenhead, aching head…groan[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/158 "2009-11-07T22:51:57Z")
They have played 33 hands in 1 hr 50 minutes, including a 20 min break. 33 hands in 90 minutes, when 80% of the hands did not get to a flop. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/159 "2009-11-07T23:35:42Z")
Akenhead must have got his aspirin as he TRIPLES UP!! Akenhead goes All-in with K-Q with a very small stack Begleiter Calls Eric Buchman with A-K re-raises to 12 Million and Begleiter Mucks After a incosnequential flop and meaningless river King, Akenhead spikes a river Queen to Triple up. I wonder what Begleiter had? Guess we will find out Tuesday night. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247/160 "2009-11-08T01:00:05Z")
Akenhead hits the rail in 9th place. After tripling up, he doubled up Schaeffel when Akenhead’s pocket kings goes up against pocket Aces. A few hand later akenhead goes all in with pcoket 3’s and Schaeffel calls with pocket nines. Schaefful end up making a BOAT. while akenhead has two pair. It took 59 hands to eliminate the first player. Seems like they are taking the pot down with pre-flop raising as about 80% hands are not getting to the flop. Ivey has not won anything substantial yet. In 7th place out of 8 places. Joe Cada has pissed away a lot of his stack and is now th short stack. Where’s the Goody’s powder? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discussion-world-series-of-poker/498247.md?page=9)