# Discworld #39 - Snuff **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418 "2011-10-12T13:37:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/21 "2011-10-16T00:14:54Z")
> [@Taomist](#): > > I have a question about Vimes’ past, which I’ll put in spoilers just in case. > > In whicht book did Vimes gain his ‘Darkness’ ability? It sounds familiar but I can’t recall just when he gained this. It’s from the Valley of Koom days, I know, and I remember reading about that, but…for some reason it just feels like I missed something somewhere. It’s from Thud. There are other references to his experiences in that book too. 🙂 Did riding the Damn Slam remind anybody else of the ship riding the big wave in Nation? ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/22 "2011-10-16T01:01:38Z")
> [@Archergal](#): > > It’s from Thud. There are other references to his experiences in that book too. 🙂 Ah thank you! I’ve read that one quite a few times, but it’s been a while. And now it’s going to be up next. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/838e76/32.png) [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/23 "2011-10-16T08:09:24Z")
Just finished. I liked it, and it was a good addition to the Vimes stable, but not the best in my view. (That would be Night Watch) ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/24 "2011-10-16T09:01:51Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > I’ve just finished it. Better than _Unseen Academicals_, but not as good as _Thud_. Seeing as _Thud_ wasnt very good (way too redundant with _The Fifth Elephant_ and some of the other Watch books)…Funny, though, when I read the plot summary, I thought “Oh, no, another Thud”. Pratchett has a tendency to repeat himself, sometimes it will still be a good book despite that (like \*Making Gold \*to \*Going Postal \*or \*Men at Arms \*to _Guards, Guards_), but it tends to leave the reader with a sense of confusion between similarly-plotted books. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/25 "2011-10-16T23:22:54Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Seeing as _Thud_ wasnt very good (way too redundant with _The Fifth Elephant_ and some of the other Watch books)…Funny, though, when I read the plot summary, I thought “Oh, no, another Thud”. > Pratchett has a tendency to repeat himself, sometimes it will still be a good book despite that (like \*Making Gold \*to \*Going Postal \*or \*Men at Arms \*to _Guards, Guards_), but it tends to leave the reader with a sense of confusion between similarly-plotted books. Minor nitpick : _Making Money_ not _Making Gold_. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/26 "2011-10-17T03:51:56Z")
I liked it. Much better than _Unseen Academicals_, and the goblins didn’t seem forced at all. Willikins is a treat as always, and the domestic scenes between Sam and Sybil were obviously written by a man long married. In fact, all of the married men seemed very real, and very married. eta: Death never made an appearance, which is unusual but not unique. ---
**Author:** ![enigmatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@enigmatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enigmatic)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/27 "2011-10-17T07:03:51Z")
It was a lot better than his last two. I thought it felt exactly like the other books starring Vimes, which is something I’m not a fan of to be honest. I always thought that Vime’s story was pretty much done with by the end of Night Watch, but he seems to be Pratchett’s favourite mouthpiece for social observation, something I’m fine with, I just wish he’d use someone else. That said, less than perfect Pratchett is still better than almost everyone else out there, and although he does retread a lot of themes, we get some nice observations, I particularly liked Sybil’s little point about not confusing value and worth. This book does give me some hope that he would be able to find a couple more decent books in him, but frankly, at this point, I wouldn’t blame him if he wants to put them aside now and spend some time with his family on a tropical island somewhere, eating potatoes. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/28 "2011-10-17T14:43:18Z")
> [@enigmatic](#): > > It was a lot better than his last two. > > I thought it felt exactly like the other books starring Vimes, which is something I’m not a fan of to be honest. > > I always thought that Vime’s story was pretty much done with by the end of Night Watch, but he seems to be Pratchett’s favourite mouthpiece for social observation, something I’m fine with, I just wish he’d use someone else. > > That said, less than perfect Pratchett is still better than almost everyone else out there, and although he does retread a lot of themes, we get some nice observations, I particularly liked Sybil’s little point about not confusing value and worth. > > This book does give me some hope that he would be able to find a couple more decent books in him, but frankly, at this point, I wouldn’t blame him if he wants to put them aside now and spend some time with his family on a tropical island somewhere, eating potatoes. I don’t think I could have put it any better. These are my thoughts almost to a tee. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/29 "2011-10-17T19:41:50Z")
Pretty poor book, even by Nightwatch/Vimes category. Pratchett is best with dialogue but not much in this one. Way too much of Vimes’ internal monologue. (Although there’s something of a dialogue to it, now, I guess.) Even the part you wait for where the Big Bads do their rants near the end is done badly. Mainly in 2nd hand relating. Structurally very weak. Too many times Vimes/Wilikins/etc. anticipating the bad guys’ moves. Way too much. Ah, creeping humanoid species syndrome. (Which \*True Blood \*and others also suffer from.) It’s strange there is no attempt to really link it to Unseen. Please folks. Stop adding new species to the universe. Enough already, deal with the ones you have. I really, really, really think Ventari should forget the Lady and go after the crossword puzzle editor. It would be a match made in heaven. Or some other afterlife place. And no Death. That’s an automatic negative 400 stars. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/30 "2011-10-19T20:45:53Z")
But…the fact that we’ve never heard of goblins before _is the whole point_. Missing that is missing the purpose of the book. They’ve always been there, but they’ve never gotten any space because, you know, they are just vermin after all. ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/31 "2011-10-19T21:28:40Z")
They haven’t been just plopped in. Not entirely anyway. They’ve been described, mostly in passing I’ll admit, in other books. One even got some dialog, I’m pretty sure in Thud! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/32 "2011-10-19T22:41:03Z")
> [@Barking\_Dog](#): > > They haven’t been just plopped in. Not entirely anyway. They’ve been described, mostly in passing I’ll admit, in other books. One even got some dialog, I’m pretty sure in Thud! IIRC then in _Unseen Academicals_ one of the humanoid characters believes he is a goblin, although this turns out not to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/33 "2011-10-19T22:52:50Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > And no Death. That’s an automatic negative 400 stars. Really? That’s rare. If correct, I guess Pratchett must have been going for some irony. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/34 "2011-10-20T02:02:04Z")
Or, if there was no organic reason for Death to have a good line, I’d rather Pratchett leave him out than awkwardly shoehorn him in just to please fans. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/35 "2011-10-25T17:54:46Z")
I liked it, but there were some serious flaws, I felt: Way too much monologuing, and I always felt Willkins was better as a sort of mysterious character. He was brought out to the fore far too much. I liked the goblins subplot at lot, even if it did come out of nowhere, and I could see it from a mile away. I have to admit, that’s one thing I did miss - no surprises. I saw all of it coming a mile away. Everybody seemed a little different. Everyone seemed almost maybe 40 degrees off where they used to be. And Young Sam’s obsession with poo got dreary after a while. Sure, it was cute to start with, but that was his only characterization - that he liked poo. The bad guy reminded me a lot of Carcer. And I got really sick of the “henpecked husband” crap. All that being said, the book was emotional, it was strong, and it was powerful, so I still liked it. The image of the murdered goblin girl haunts me a bit. Begging for her life. I really would have liked to hear more about the soul jar with the little baby that was eaten and had to be given to the other goblin girl. I was really looking forward to that moment, and when it happened, it happened off-screen. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/36 "2011-10-26T00:48:10Z")
I guess I’m going to have to have another try at it, but… I think this is the only DW book I’ve had to put down because I was unable to finish it. I found it that bad. I’m going to be charitable and chalk it up to the Alzheimer’s. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/37 "2011-10-26T08:35:32Z")
Pterry’s [mentioned goblins before](http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Goblins) - in _Unseen Academicals_, but also in _Equal Rites_ and other books, there is mention of them: > [@](#): > > The dwarf halls rang to the sound of hammers, although mainly for effect. Dwarves found it hard to think without the sound of hammers, which they found soothing, so well-off dwarves in the clerical professions paid **goblins** to hit small ceremonial anvils, just to maintain the correct dwarvish image. and > [@](#): > > A party of gnolls had crept up on them during the night. The nasty creatures, a variety of stone **goblin** , had slit the throat of a guard and must have been poised to slaughter the entire party. Only… Of course, how this gibes with the depiction of gnolls as ambulatory garbage heaps in _Jingo_ and \*Feet of Clay \* is an exercise left for the reader… ---
**Author:** ![iftheresaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecae2f/32.png) [@iftheresaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iftheresaway)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/38 "2011-11-01T03:50:46Z")
Well, I guess I’ll run counter to the trend and say that I loved it. I agree that the pacing was different than some previous Discworld books, but I quite liked the slower, multi-faceted ending (as opposed to Big Climax followed by Minor Denouement). I loved the look at a changing Vimes - just a bit older, just a bit wiser, just a bit more of a family man. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/39 "2011-11-01T19:30:44Z")
It was… OK. Vimes is turning into a bit of a Mary-Sue, with everyone knowing who he is and admiring him. A cocktail named after him is instantly the most popular one everywhere, the pub’s renamed after him, everyone on the river loves him even though he wasn’t the one driving the boat… Next up, he’ll get elected God. I also got rather fed up of Willikins. Yes, he’s a butler who looks weak but is really vicious; I got that the first ten times it was mentioned. There also wasn’t as much humour as usual. I’m trying to think of good points to focus on too, but can’t come up with any. A lot of it was OK, but there’s nothing that stands out as particularly good. > [@JSexton](#): > > Or, if there was no organic reason for Death to have a good line, I’d rather Pratchett leave him out than awkwardly shoehorn him in just to please fans. There were quite a few deaths, including two significant ones. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418/40 "2011-11-01T20:44:20Z")
I really thought after the last book that Vimes’ story was done. He was Duke, he had a baby on the way, he had pretty much established his credentials and the Watch, he was rich, he was no longer a drunk…I mean it was a great ascension story. This one certainly did feel a bit unneccessary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-39-snuff/599418.md?page=3)