# Discworld Book 2 - The Light Fantastic \[Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213 "2005-06-21T16:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/1 "2005-06-21T16:12:27Z")
It looks like the regular discussions on the Discworld books isn’t continuing so I thought I would jump in and move things forward. So this week it’s the second book in the Discworld series, The Light Fantastic. This book is more like it. The Colour of Magic was rough, disjointed, and lacked a lot of the Discworld style. TLF has a lot more refined writing and the jokes are sharper and come from more than just rough parodies. Unfortunately I think Pratchett relied on the same style of climax from TLF for the majority of the early novels. It seemed like the creatures from the Dungeon Dimensions were always just on the verge of breaking through. On the other hand, I can’t think of the last time they’ve been mentioned in the series (maybe Moving Pictures?). Is it me or did the Wizards change between TCoM and TLF? In TCoM the rules of magic that are set up would seem to make the magic performed (particularly in the magic poor environment later in the novel) impossible. I don’t get the impression that magic isn’t more trouble than its worth which is the point that seemed to be made initially, but the difficulty seems less than it was mentioned. One more thing, does anyone have an idea where the water on the discworld comes from. Yes, magic is a perfectly acceptable answer, but with the quantities of water pouring off the disc I’m left wondering where it goes and where it comes from. I can’t envision a system that would bring the water back to the disc… The next book: Equal Rites. I think we should plan for two weeks between books since that gives plenty of time to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/2 "2005-06-21T16:33:18Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > Speaking of that, isn’t this the book where Twoflower takes a picture of Death’s realm? As I recall, when Twoflower looks at the picture he has taken, it reveals things to horrible to say. It is my personal theory that either the four horsemen are Lovecraftian things too horrible to see, or the picture was of a blank cavern.Any ideas on this? > [@Just Some Guy](#): > > One more thing, does anyone have an idea where the water on the discworld comes from. Yes, magic is a perfectly acceptable answer, but with the quantities of water pouring off the disc I’m left wondering where it goes and where it comes from. I can’t envision a system that would bring the water back to the disc… A guess: The god of beer realizes the place is about to run out of water, so he conjures up more water into the sea, to replace that which has been run out of. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/3 "2005-06-21T17:02:53Z")
Since anyone reading this thread has presumably made it through TLF I think we can drop the spoiler tags. I think that the photo didn’t show anything. The realm of death is a realm of concepts and the photo imp paints what is visible. I don’t think it shows what is spiritual. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/4 "2005-06-21T19:01:37Z")
Regarding the water: I would imagine an ecosystem where the water falling off the Edge is evaporated and returns to the Disk as rain. TLF was a stronger book than the first, since it had one coherant plot. Death seems less malevolent than he did in TCoM. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/5 "2005-06-21T20:02:48Z")
Maus, my problem with that is I wouldn’t expect the water to move toward the center of the disk. I could see this working for lands close to the edge but locations like the Ramtops wouldn’t get water. Maybe it condenses on the underside of the disc, flows to the middle, and then goes up and out through a hole there… ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/6 "2005-06-21T20:26:34Z")
Ah, but if the water vapor enters orbit like the sun and moon, then it could condence and rain down towards teh hub. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/7 "2005-06-21T20:53:34Z")
I did say that we should stick to bi-weekly, and I was gonna sit down and write the OP for this on tonight. Seeing that I was laid up for surgery last week (which I knew in advance), I planned it so I’d get out of the hospital and have the weekend to write it (I re-read it about three weeks ago), but I was more feeble during the weekend than I thought I’d be, so I’m glad someone else started the thread. TLF is the first clear sign of things to come. There are _very_ big inconsistencies with later books, concerning troll mythology and facts. The way UU works can easily be explained away, as can many other things. The trolls - well no. But apart from that, TLF is moving away from being a parody of Fantasy and starting to be a parody of human weaknesses. There are hints in how the younger wízards want to run the University, echoing of the management consultants of the 80’s. The humor and delivery in the spoken lines is much more skilled. One of my favorite passages is when Rincewind and Twoflower are escaping on the broomstick and wake up on the druid rock. Twoflower says (paraphrasing): “You remember when I asked you if there wasn’ty anything we could hit in the clouds and you said only if we’d come across a flying rock.” “Well?” “How did you know?” The narration flows much better and Pterry gets in quite a few good shots against the romantic views on druids, pixies and barbarian. The debut of Genghis Cohen was pure genius, of course. But there are also some nice comments about how people’s minds work, mob mentality and why you should avoid someone staring at your left ear when they are trying to tell you about their religion. All in all. It’s enjoyable, if not very memorable. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/8 "2005-06-22T22:34:30Z")
I disagree with **The Gaspode** on the last part – _The Light Fantastic_ is very memorable, moreso than _The Color of Magic._ In many ways, it’s the first “true” introduction to the Discworld, having gotten away from the disjoint nature of _TCOM._ If nothing else, the introduction of Cohen the Barbarian (and his nefangled _dint-chewers_) is a major watermark of the series. And the whole bit with Weems and the Luggage establishes (IMO) just how totally badass the Luggage is. Having wallowed in Pratchettness for so long, going back and reading all about the “backstabbing wizards” bit is a bit disconcerning. I like the wizards better in the later novels, as a bunch of doofs with Ridcully riding herd on them, since it’s more comedic. Having them as a gang of wanna-be executives (in sequined gowns, admittedly) just doesn’t work for me. Oh, and the best bit of writing has to be the entire wizards-vs-warriors sequence… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/9 "2005-06-22T23:20:15Z")
This book was also the introduction of the Librarian. The second oldest regularly recurring character in the series. I think my favorite line in this is during the riot in Ahnk-Morpork. Twoflower: This is awful, I even saw som people robbing a music store. Rincewind: Probably luters. The first time I read this book (oh about 17-18 years ago) (God I’m old), I got misty eyed at the end when Rincewind and Twoflower parted company. “If trouble was lightning, he’d be the type to run up a hill in a rainstorm, wearing metal armor shouting ‘All gods are bastards’” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/10 "2005-06-23T01:06:47Z")
That was one of the puns that killed me in a “I can’t believe he put that in there.” way. The other was Rincewind: How long do you think they’ll be playing? Twoflower: Until the last trump. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/11 "2005-06-23T01:22:56Z")
If we’re going to be talking killer puns, then it would be totally wrong to omit this one (when the wizards were searching in the forest with the talking trees): A junior wizard is speaking… > [@](#): > > “…they say this is a magic wood, it’s full of goblins and wolves and–” > “Trees,” said a voice out of the darkness, high above. It possessed what can only be described as timbre. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/12 "2005-06-23T02:12:53Z")
Oh dear! I must reread this book tonight. I will write what I thought about it tomorrow. Not that anyone cares, but I just wanted you to know that you still have a living breathing book club member. More tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/13 "2005-06-23T02:32:29Z")
> [@Just Some Guy](#): > > Unfortunately I think Pratchett relied on the same style of climax from TLF for the majority of the early novels. It seemed like the creatures from the Dungeon Dimensions were always just on the verge of breaking through. On the other hand, I can’t think of the last time they’ve been mentioned in the series (maybe Moving Pictures?). I agree. I really didn’t like the dungeon dimension creatures. Personally, I like puns. Other than that, I don’t have anything else to say, because I, uh, didn’t actually re-read the book, so I don’t remember much. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/14 "2005-06-23T05:42:02Z")
Oh, yes. The taking trees. Great off beat humor, there. Thank og Pterry isn’t Lucas and tries to go back an re-write them to fit the later books. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/15 "2005-06-23T06:26:10Z")
> [@Just Some Guy](#): > > One more thing, does anyone have an idea where the water on the discworld comes from. It’s just an artifact of the Theory of Narrative Causality. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/16 "2005-06-23T06:50:20Z")
> [@Just Some Guy](#): > > Unfortunately I think Pratchett relied on the same style of climax from TLF for the majority of the early novels. It seemed like the creatures from the Dungeon Dimensions were always just on the verge of breaking through. On the other hand, I can’t think of the last time they’ve been mentioned in the series (maybe Moving Pictures?). Oh, they get mentioned a lot, they just don’t feature.In _Thief of Time_ there are all the little statues of the _dlhang_ , and in _The Truth_ the Patrician goes on at length about the occult risks of new enterprises in A.M. I loved the whole megalith computer thing, a natural extension of some crackpot theories. Also, this is the Discworld book where Pterry really starts playing around with metatext, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/17 "2005-06-23T13:50:17Z")
I haven’t read this book in a while, but I like most of his Rincewind stuff. Um…isn’t this the one with Lady Luck? I really liked her, and the whole frog bit. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/18 "2005-06-23T14:20:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > In _Thief of Time_ there are all the little statues of the _dlhang_ , and in _The Truth_ the Patrician goes on at length about the occult risks of new enterprises in A.M. Pratchett claims that the references to the fish and chips stand on Dagon street which come up several times throughout the series are to the Philistine god rather than the Lovecraftian one. Personally, I don’t see how he could not be aware of the connection, but he’s the author. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/19 "2005-06-23T14:26:45Z")
Just Some Guy: He is doubghtly aware of the existance of the god, as well as Lovecraft, and simply choose to use a ref to Babylon here. He can do that, he’s the author. He has lovecraft references in other places, such as the other Dimentions, and the Necrotelicomnicom. Also, I am taking your advice. As I recall, when Twoflower looks at the picture he has taken, it reveals things to horrible to say. It is my personal theory that either the four horsemen are Lovecraftian things too horrible to see, or the picture was of a blank cavern. Any ideas on this? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213/20 "2005-06-23T15:09:59Z")
> [@Just Some Guy](#): > > Pratchett claims that the references to the fish and chips stand on Dagon street which come up several times throughout the series are to the Philistine god rather than the Lovecraftian one. Personally, I don’t see how he could not be aware of the connection, but he’s the author. Oh, I wasn’t refering to that. The Patrician also makes specific reference to _Moving Pictures_ & mentions the Dungeon Dimensions by name. And I knew Dagon as the fish-clad god long befor I read Lovecraft, and I suspect it’s possible Pterry learned it the same way I did - it was in one of those Reader’s Digest Amazing Facts & Strange Stories books about the _Dogon_ of Mali and their knowledge of the binary stars in Alph Centauri. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-book-2-the-light-fantastic-spoilers/309213.md?page=2)