# Discworld Reading Club #13: Small Gods \[Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864 "2006-04-23T16:51:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/1 "2006-04-23T16:51:15Z")
There are no inconsistencies in the Discworld books; ocassionally, however, there are alternate pasts. –Terry Pratchett, at alt-fan-pratchett The books covered so far! 1. [The Colour of Magic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=319942) 2. [The Light Fantastic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=322121) 3. [Equal Rites](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=323881) 4. [Mort](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=325906) 5. [Sourcery](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=329316) 6. [Wyrd Sisters](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=331474) 7. [Pyramids](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354028) 8. [Guards! Guards!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=356823) 9. [[del]Faust[/del] Eric](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=359767) 10. [Moving Pictures](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=362543) 11. [Reaper Man](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364542) 12. [Witches Abroad](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366634) His philosophy was a mixture of three famous schools–the Cynics, the Stoics and the Epicureans–and summed up all three of them in his famous phrase, “You can’t trust any bugger further than you can throw him, and there’s nothing you can do about it, so let’s have a drink.” –Dydactylos the philosopher _Small Gods_ is an interesting book. It goes back to the whole satirizing of one specific concept, like _Moving Pictures_ and _Pyramids_, by taking on religion (PTerry does this again later in _The Last Hero_). My feeling from reading _Small Gods_–and other Discgods-centric books–was that PTerry has an ambivalent sort of attitude towards gods and religion in general; they’re useful and important at times, but on the whole humankind can get along rather nicely without them. Here’s [the Wikipedia link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Gods) with more on the book. Well, what did you guys think? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/2 "2006-04-23T16:54:49Z")
I love this book, although there are portions where it drags, like in the desert. But I love the concepts addressed. “Deal with me in weakness before you have to deal with someone in strength.” And I liked the (rather creepy IMO) idea of all the small gods out in the desert, waiting. Vorbis was scary. A very good book, and one I still read often. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/3 "2006-04-23T17:43:56Z")
Definitely in the Top 5 for me. Great themes, great dialogue, philosophers, this one has it all. In fact, “The Turtle Moves!” is part of my e-mail sig IRL. “It’s a god-eat-god world.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/4 "2006-04-23T17:51:19Z")
It was the first Pratchett book I read and still my favorite. I am personally convinced that LionsGate created _Black and White_ after having read it. My 15 yo’s pet turtle is named “The Great God Om.” The dig in SGs is not against religion, or spiriruality; it is against organized religion’s abuse of power and the hypocricy of those who practice ritual merely to conform. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/5 "2006-04-23T23:21:20Z")
It’s one of my favorites too, right up there with **Hogfather**. I have no trouble imagining that belief is what keeps the gods going. And the tortoise and the eagle bits are classic. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/6 "2006-04-24T00:03:22Z")
It was the 2nd one I read, after Soul Music. Big thumbs up. I got my wife to read it and she enjoyed it. Then she got her book group to read it, and they _hated_ it! Too many ideas, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/7 "2006-04-24T00:31:30Z")
Only Discworld book I ever read so I can’t compare, but I really liked it. Many of the characters and places are rudiculously over the top (especially the philosopher’s city) but the book struck a good balance: not making things so silly that you didn’t care about the plot. Appologize for a slight hijack, but: > [@silenus](#): > > Definitely in the Top 5 for me. Mind if I ask what the other 4 are? I really liked Small Gods, but it’s the only DiscWorld novel I’ve ever read. I’d like to read a few more, but don’t see myself plowing through the whole series. Anyone recommend the “Essential Pratchet” for me? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/8 "2006-04-24T00:39:46Z")
First one I read. Loved it. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/9 "2006-04-24T00:48:39Z")
Not the first one I read. Still loved it. I’ll have to think about the top five question. (So hard to prune the list.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/10 "2006-04-24T00:49:38Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > Mind if I ask what the other 4 are? Well, my Top 5 are probably, in no particular order: 1. **Small Gods** 2. **Nightwatch** 3. **Soul Music** 4. **Maskerade** 5. **Interesting Times** The problem is, most of these are later books in a given sub-series, meaning you aren’t going to get the most out of them if you haven’t read the previous books. **Small Gods** is a stand-alone. You can probably read **Soul Music** without any prep, and only miss a few of the jokes. But\*\* Nightwatch, Maskerade \*\* and **Interesting Times** are next-to-impossible to appreciate without knowing “What Went Before.” [This](http://www.co.uk.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/the-discworld-reading-order-guide-colour-1-25.gif) is a graphic of what there is so far. It gives you some good starter novels for each sub-series. If you liked **Small Gods,** then try the “Death Cycle” next. You lucky bastard. You get to read them all for the first time! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/11 "2006-04-24T05:30:40Z")
Top 5, nothing – _Small Gods_ easily makes the Top 3 for me. I’m not sure I’d use the word “satire” to describe the novel, though. While _SG_ uses comedy in good doses, it doesn’t really strike me as mocking religion as much as just taking a good hard look at the topic. A philosophical head-fake, as it were. > [@Kythereia](#): > > My feeling from reading Small Gods–and other Discgods-centric books–was that PTerry has an ambivalent sort of attitude towards gods and religion in general; they’re useful and important at times, but on the whole humankind can get along rather nicely without them. Isn’t pTerry an avowed atheist? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/12 "2006-04-24T12:19:42Z")
When i first read it, this was my least favourite Discworld. But many times since then I’ve heard that people list it amongst their very favourites, so I decided to read it again. I realised that I had preconceptions the first time I’d read it, I was expecting a particular kind of take on religion. His characterisation of Om as a bitter selfish little twerp was off-putting, and Brutha’s amiable tagging along was frustrating. But the second time I read it, I just enjoyed the playing out of the tale, and saw where the characterisations fit in the story, and what he was saying via them both. It made more sense to me, and was much more entertaining. I think there’s still too much Om miserably muttering to himself, and the bad guy, Vorbis, was maybe a little too physically unusual with his dark eyes to be genuine. But the rest of the “cast” are nicely characterised, and there are some geat individual scenes, or sketches perhaps, like when the priests discuss Brutha’s earliest memory, and the ultimate fate of Vorbis, that really makes it stand out. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/13 "2006-04-24T14:22:42Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Isn’t pTerry an avowed atheist? 🆒 Wiki doesn’t address it; neither does L-Space, as far as I can tell. Cite? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/14 "2006-04-24T14:55:30Z")
He’s atheist, all right, but he’s also pretty laid-back about religion and religious belief from what I gather. I don’t have a cite off-hand, can’t go hunting for one at work, but I know I’ve seen it in many places. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/15 "2006-04-24T16:41:27Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I think there’s still too much Om miserably muttering to himself Om’s whole schtick was probably my favorite part of the book, actually. The irony of Omism being such a HUGE religion, the official religion and theocratic government of Omnia, but the titular god of said religion having almost become a Small God because the people were worshipping the religion rather than him…just beautiful. The fact that Om (and his prophets of old) is/are so…non-grandiose in aspect, the fact that Om actually _learned_ from Brutha (he had to…without Brutha he’d be a wind in the desert), the delight of learning what Vorbis’ eternity would be like…all absolutely delicious. I love this book, if anyone can’t tell. ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/16 "2006-04-24T21:13:53Z")
i would be hard pressed to decide between **Small Gods** and **Nightwatch** as to which is my favorite Discworld book. Brutha and Vorbis are two of my favorite characters from all of literature. Also Vorbis’ death scene was incredibly vivid to me. I could picture it perfectly. and I loved Friit’s philosophy of life. (paraphrased, I don’t have the book in front of me) “If a man does what he feels is right in his heart and not according to what any book or god says, then things, for the most part, will turn out all right.” Ok, it won’t exactly fit on a banner, but it’s a good philosophy anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/17 "2006-04-24T21:30:23Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > He’s atheist, all right, but he’s also pretty laid-back about religion and religious belief from what I gather. I don’t have a cite off-hand, can’t go hunting for one at work, but I know I’ve seen it in many places. IIRC he said something like “I don’t believe God exists, but I’m damn pissed off at Him for not existing, if that makes sense to anyone else.” For his real _screed_ on religion, check out Carpe Jugulum. It’s not the main plot, but the conversation Granny has with Mightily Oats can be a little uncomfortable for religious types. Though a discussion of that could wait till we get there (many moons from now…). I can say right now I thought Granny was being a little unfair, considering that what she seems to actually dislike about Omnianism – the fact that it’s been diluted enough that nobody’s burning anyone, it’s just a way to “get in touch with the neighbors” is exactly what witchery is, just with a different name. Don’t help people with magic, help them with skin. The first sin (which she even goes on to say in CJ!) is treating people like things. I’m thinking of gifting my church’s rector with a copy of Small Gods to see what he thinks of it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/18 "2006-04-24T22:32:21Z")
> [@Little Plastic Ninja](#): > > I’m thinking of gifting my church’s rector with a copy of Small Gods to see what he thinks of it. 😃 I’ve heard that atheists enjoy _Small Gods_ for seeing it as a denouncement of religion, and theists enjoy _small Gods_ for reaffirming the positive benefits of religion. Go fig. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/19 "2006-04-24T22:39:02Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’ve heard that atheists enjoy _Small Gods_ for seeing it as a denouncement of religion, and theists enjoy _small Gods_ for reaffirming the positive benefits of religion. Go fig. 🙂 Theists who think religion and government should stay far away from one another like it, too- or at least this one did. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864/20 "2006-04-24T22:52:54Z")
First Discworld novel I ever read, and still number one for me in terms of general quality. Per **rjung** ’s above post, I dug it initially because it suited my atheistic, anti-religious leanings. But there’s so much more than just an atheistic polemic going on here. The key moment, and one of my favorite in all the Discworld novels, is at the end, after Brutha has died and found Vorbis still cowering in the desert of the afterlife. Despite the fact that he knows Vorbis was an evil, power-hungry tyrant, despite the fact that the last time Brutha carried Vorbis across a desert, Vorbis turned around and stabbed him in the back, he still picks him up and starts off across the waste with him again. Which is about as perfect a Christian act as I can think of in literature. Brutha doesn’t even pause to consider wether or not Vorbis deserves help. It’s not up to Brutha to judge that. But he can see that Vorbis _needs_ help, so Brutha helps him. The book is just about a perfect description of everything that’s wrong with organized religion, and everything that’s right about personal faith. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-13-small-gods-spoilers/353864.md?page=2)