# Discworld Reading Club #18: Maskerade
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 4, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737 "2007-01-04T21:38:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [January 4, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/1 "2007-01-04T21:38:34Z")
Another year, another DWRC thread. Hope everyone’s back from the end-of-the-year parties, and welcome new SDMB Pratchett fanboy **Illuminatiprimus** to the clique.
The books covered so far–
[1. The Colour of Magic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=319942)
[2. The Light Fantastic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=322121)
[3. Equal Rites](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=323881)
[4. Mort](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=325906)
[5. Sourcery](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=329316)
[6. Wyrd Sisters](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=331474)
[7. Pyramids](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354028)
[8. Guards! Guards!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=356823)
[9. Eric](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=359767)
[10. Moving Pictures](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=362543)
[11. Reaper Man](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=364542)
[12. Witches Abroad](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366634)
[13. Small Gods](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368592)
[14. Lords and Ladies](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=370560)
[15. Men at Arms](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=385770)
[16. Soul Music](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=392204)
[17. Interesting Times](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=399321)
The thing I like most about _Maskerade_ is that, even though it’s a blatant parody of opera, musicals, and theatre, it’s entirely approachable and enjoyable even if you have no knowledge of those fields (as I do). And while a lot of _Maskerade_ is played for laughs, there’s also a good amount of character development and a touch of philosophical navel gazing that elevates it above Pratchett’s early Discworld works (and _Interesting Times_).
One thing I didn’t pick up on the first few times I read the book was how Granny’s posing as Lady Esmeralda is a second take on the same gag – namely, Nanny and Granny attending the masked ball in _Witches Abroad._ I thought it was funnier the second time around, though, especially Granny’s excessive (and expensive) makeovers to prepare for the role, and Nanny Ogg’s brunchtime revenge. 😉
And while Agnes was the central character in this novel, I have to admit I didn’t get too much of a “feel” for her here. She was a background character in _Lords and Ladies,_ she became a quasi-background character in _Maskerade,_ and IMO didn’t really become a full-blown notable Discworld person until _Carpe Jugulum._ I think that might be because Agnes doesn’t really do much of anything in this novel, at least in a proactive way, whereas she actually takes charge a few times in _CJ._ Contrast Agnes here with Tiffany Aching in _The Wee Free Men,_ who Steps Forth and Prods Buttock™ from the first page and immediately becomes memorable as a result.
That’s enough for me for now; what’re your thoughts?
---
### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/2 "2007-01-05T00:41:52Z")
This is my absolutely most favourite of all the Discworld novels. I have worked in theatre, so I recognise a lot of it, but I like how it’s a parody of Phantom of the Opera without it actually being a parody at all, it just has partial references.
I love it when Granny and Nanny try to blend in, I love how it’s a murder mystery with a lot of red herrings, and I completely adore Walter Plinge.
When I read it the second time, I tried to imagine what Walter looked like, thinking “who would wear an overcoat and beret like that” and then it struck me like a bolt of lightning. [Frank Spencer](http://www.steve-p.org/sm/). And who plays this character? Michael Crawford. And who is he most famous for playing, after Frank? [The Phantom of the Opera](http://www.snowcrest.net/ladybear/phantom.gif). Brilliant.
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/3 "2007-01-05T00:53:40Z")
It’s a \*Witches \*book. I won’t read it. With the pleasant exception of _Witches Abroad_, I’m afraid I despise every other Witches book - and I have tried them all at one point or another.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/4 "2007-01-05T01:30:22Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
It’s a \*Witches \*book. I won’t read it. With the pleasant exception of _Witches Abroad_, I’m afraid I despise every other Witches book - and I have tried them all at one point or another.
[/QUOTE]
I strongly urge you not to skip it. The witches are a large part, I grant you, but Pratchett’s skewering of opera and its participants is far more important. Virtually the entire thing is set in A-M, so there’s very little Lancre stuff. Most of the book that does deal with Nanny Ogg and Granny Weatherwax is simply slowly insinuating them into the narrative, not just having them take charge of the entire situation.
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/5 "2007-01-05T01:34:54Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot]
I strongly urge you not to skip it. The witches are a large part, I grant you, but Pratchett’s skewering of opera and its participants is far more important. Virtually the entire thing is set in A-M, so there’s very little Lancre stuff. Most of the book that does deal with Nanny Ogg and Granny Weatherwax is simply slowly insinuating them into the narrative, not just having them take charge of the entire situation.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, all right then.
See? That was pretty easy. Then again, I’d prolly do a lot Captain Carrot asked me to. 😛
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### Author:  [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/6 "2007-01-05T01:40:12Z")
Angua might want to have a word with you, **Ana**. 😉
Seeing as this was the first book that got me hooked, it always has a special place in my heart–as does Agnes “Perditax” Nitt. As does Andre (my liking for him grows and grows throughout the book and then promptly falls off a cliff when he falls for Christine). As do Granny and Nanny Ogg. As does Walter Plinge. As does… oh, hell, I love the whole book, I really do. 😃
I kinda wanted Agnes to end up with Andre at the end, though. Just a very tiny small part of me.
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### Author:  [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/7 "2007-01-05T01:44:12Z")
I’m still waiting for my autographed first edition of the unexpurgated _The Joye of Snacks_. Time to brush up my cooking skills.
I agree Agnes is still a little vague, probably because of her special relationship with Perdita. Carpe Jugulum is really her book, although she never develops the way the other witches do. Maybe TP was already veering off into Tiffany territory and lost interest in Agnes’ possibilities.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/8 "2007-01-05T02:21:23Z")
Definitely in the Top 10 for me, but not quite the Top 5. Lots of characters, lots of different angles on characters we know from other books, and a realization from Granny that maybe, just maybe, in certain areas, Nanny is a much more powerful witch than she is. But only in _certain_ areas, as the brunch proved. 😃
_“Well, basically there are two sorts of opera,’ said Nanny, who also had the true witch’s ability to be confidently expert on the basis of no experience whatsoever. ‘There’s your heavy opera, where basically people sing foreign and it goes like "Oh oh oh, I am dyin’, oh, I am dyin’, oh, oh, oh, that’s what I’m doin’”, and there’s your light opera, where they sing in foreign and it basically goes “Beer! Beer! Beer! Beer! I like to drink lots of beer!”, although sometimes they drink champagne instead. That’s basically all of opera, reely."_
– ( **Nanny Ogg** , _Maskerade_)
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/9 "2007-01-05T02:38:39Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
Then again, I’d prolly do a lot Captain Carrot asked me to. 😛
[/QUOTE]
Me or him? I’m guessing him.
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### Author:  [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/10 "2007-01-05T02:44:02Z")
“‘Don’t cry for me, Genua.’”
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/11 "2007-01-05T04:07:30Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot]
Me or him? I’m guessing him.
[/QUOTE]
Depends. Do you look like that other Carrot?
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### Author:  [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/12 "2007-01-05T10:14:05Z")
I always picture Crispin Glover as Walter.
Perditax is the better version of Ginger froom Moving pictures. About being one person in real life, another on the stage and the conflict within. She’s a lot more interesting than Magrat, and I’m not too thrilled about the Tiffany books. It’s well plotted, the humor is good and there are a lot of interesting side characters. It’s among the top of the comedy books, but I wouldn’t group it with the ‘guilty of literature’ books.
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### Author:  [@PerditaX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PerditaX)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/13 "2007-01-05T12:36:06Z")
Thank you, Charlie! 😉
My favorite thing about this one is “Lord Gribeau.” I just love the way
Greebo’s personality stays the same, even when his “morphic field” changes to human. “He could commit sexual harassment just by sitting quietly in the next room.” 😃
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [January 5, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/14 "2007-01-05T22:18:33Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
It’s a \*Witches \*book. I won’t read it. With the pleasant exception of _Witches Abroad_, I’m afraid I despise every other Witches book - and I have tried them all at one point or another.
[/QUOTE]
:eek:
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
Oh, all right then.
See? That was pretty easy. Then again, I’d prolly do a lot Captain Carrot asked me to. 😛
[/quote]
Yeah, he is rather persuasive, isn’t he? Almost like royalty, in fact… 😉
> [@Kythereia](#):
>
> Seeing as this was the first book that got me hooked, it always has a special place in my heart–as does Agnes “Perditax” Nitt. As does Andre (my liking for him grows and grows throughout the book and then promptly falls off a cliff when he falls for Christine).
Oh, thanks for reminding me about Andre. For some reason, when he reveals his undercover identity to Granny Weatherwax, I was rather annoyed at how _deus ex machina_ it felt – not that it literally resolved everything, but simply how conveniently out of left field it was. I mean, it could have been Angua in disguise (or Fred Colon on a _really_ good week) to get the same effect. Maybe I just feel that introducing new Watch characters in a non-Watch book is odd (and IIRC, Andre never shows up anywhere else)…
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### Author:  [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/15 "2007-01-07T17:17:53Z")
I looved it when it came out, but it doesn’t hold up as well on rereads for me. I like it well enough, and it’s got lots of yucks, but there’s something missing here that was there in _WA_, _L&L_ and is there again in _CJ_. Can’t quite put my finger on it, but _Maskerade_ seems a little like marking time before the good stuff (_CJ_ and the Aching books)
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2007, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/16 "2007-01-07T17:54:23Z")
[QUOTE=Anaamika]
Depends. Do you look like that other Carrot?
[/QUOTE]
Nearly a foot shorter and not as charismatic, but just as muscular.
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/17 "2007-01-07T20:32:05Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble]
but there’s something missing here that was there in _WA_, _L&L_ and is there again in _CJ_. Can’t quite put my finger on it
[/QUOTE]
There’s less philosophising. Normally there’s a major point about humanity’s behaviour being made, but in Maskerade it’s mostly just a murder mystery, and a showcase of the weirdness of the world of Opera.
But I like that, it’s one of the last that has a cavalcade of fun jokes in it.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [January 7, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/18 "2007-01-07T20:38:56Z")
Rhubarb rhubarb rhubarb…
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/19 "2007-02-04T04:31:10Z")
OK…it’s been a month. When is the next book going to be discussed? 😛
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### Author:  [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2007, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/discworld-reading-club-18-maskerade/386737/20 "2007-02-04T04:39:25Z")
Yeah, can we do **Night Watch** , or do we have to do the others in the series first?
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