# Disgusted by politics right now (yet another health care thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 21, 2010, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225 "2010-03-21T11:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Digger1914](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@Digger1914](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger1914)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/1 "2010-03-21T11:34:46Z")
I always have been political, kept one eyeball on the issues. This Health Care debate has been different. I’m about ready to chuck the whole thing. I’ve heard that if a person really knew where there meat came from, truly knew what went into getting that meat on your dinner table, many people would be so disgusted they’d become vegetarians. That’s the way I feel about this debate. I’m disgusted by what either side has to do to get any meaningful change done in this country. No wonder politicians usually only nibble around the edges on an issue. The realities of what needs to be done are vile. Backroom deals and promises just to get one vote from the ruling party and absolute sky is falling, scare tactics from the right. Status Quo sucks, but change is too unseemly. Even after the vote, it’s only going to get worse. It has probably always been like this, but only now with an issue and administration I care about do I really see what it takes to govern. It ain’t pretty. The people on both sides have sunk to some low levels on this debate and after the vote, it’s going to be that much harder to get anything done. I’m just so frustrated by the whole process. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/2 "2010-03-21T12:13:15Z")
It helps to remember a couple of things. First, this is the biggest piece of domestic legislation in decades. In addition to being a huge piece of legislation by any dimension, it is legislation that has been historically impossible. And it came at a time when Republicans had to fight it tooth-and-nail as a matter of their political survival, regardless of content. So the worst of Washington was bound to be present. Second, for as bad as this was, neither side lost their bearings completely. There was no violence. No shut-downs. The only threats of secession were from the likes of Rick Perry, who was running a campaign. Indeed, for the most part, the sides felt obligated to make their misrepresentations within a stone’s throw of the truth. And though the media completely abandoned the field when it came to discussing the substance of reform, the main talking points of both sides were fairly aired on procedure. Even when the media was getting it wrong for a while (like when they were speaking about passing the whole bill through reconciliation), they eventually got it right. The truth outs, eventually. Third, as you said, when you follow it closely, you see all the bumps. But that’s not just because you’re paying attention this time. It’s because you’re watching it in real time. There’s no chance to have the proper perspective – to see not only the relative import of certain events, but to see the truth of them that comes with time and reflection. Things that seem outrageous when you’re swimming in the 24-hour cycle won’t seem that outrageous in six months, or five years, when the books are written. It took backroom deals to pass the Senate, but the Senate itself is going to strip those deals out. That’s pretty unprecedented. Some House members are most likely going to vote against their own political interests, something many cynical observers say never happens. Our current political climate is gloomy, but there are rays of hope. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/3 "2010-03-21T15:06:44Z")
A condition that has prevailed for, roughly, 200 years. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/4 "2010-03-21T16:54:17Z")
There’s a saying about politics and sausage. If you enjoy either, don’t watch how they’re made. ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/5 "2010-03-21T17:04:14Z")
> [@Digger1914](#): > > I always have been political, kept one eyeball on the issues. This Health Care debate has been different. I’m about ready to chuck the whole thing. > > I’ve heard that if a person really knew where there meat came from, truly knew what went into getting that meat on your dinner table, many people would be so disgusted they’d become vegetarians. > > That’s the way I feel about this debate. I’m disgusted by what either side has to do to get any meaningful change done in this country. No wonder politicians usually only nibble around the edges on an issue. The realities of what needs to be done are vile. > > Backroom deals and promises just to get one vote from the ruling party and absolute sky is falling, scare tactics from the right. Status Quo sucks, but change is too unseemly. > > Even after the vote, it’s only going to get worse. It has probably always been like this, but only now with an issue and administration I care about do I really see what it takes to govern. It ain’t pretty. The people on both sides have sunk to some low levels on this debate and after the vote, it’s going to be that much harder to get anything done. > > I’m just so frustrated by the whole process. You should have titled your post: “I’ve played into the GOP’s hands”. Looks like the “curse on both your houses” strategy has worked on you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Krebbs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5fc32e/32.png) [@Mr.Krebbs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Krebbs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/6 "2010-03-21T23:18:13Z")
> [@Piker](#): > > You should have titled your post: “I’ve played into the GOP’s hands”. Looks like the “curse on both your houses” strategy has worked on you. :dubious: Doesn’t it seem like such a strategy would benefit third parties rather than the GOP? Or is this a short-term political strategy you’re theorizing here? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/7 "2010-03-21T23:32:40Z")
If it did, we’d have a lot more third party candidates around, IMO. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Piker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@Piker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Piker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/8 "2010-03-21T23:58:38Z")
> [@Mr.Krebbs](#): > > :dubious: > > Doesn’t it seem like such a strategy would benefit third parties rather than the GOP? Or is this a short-term political strategy you’re theorizing here? I think its pretty obvious that the party that campaigns on the assertion that government is dysfunctional has an incentive to make government dysfunctional. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/9 "2010-03-22T01:49:16Z")
Am listing to the debate right now. After listening for 30 minutes, I truly believe the Democrats eventually want to implement a European-style, government-run, single-payer system. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/10 "2010-03-22T01:54:43Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > After listening for 30 minutes, I truly believe the Democrats eventually want to implement a European-style, government-run, single-payer system. One would certainly hope so. One would have hoped that even Republicans would have noticed that the industrial democracies of the West that have such a system have lower costs and better results than the system the U.S. currently uses. But that’s not what the vote is on tonight, now, is it? You may defend that bridge when we get to it, Horatio. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/11 "2010-03-22T01:59:17Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Am listing to the debate right now. > > After listening for 30 minutes, I truly believe the Democrats eventually want to implement a European-style, government-run, single-payer system. Let’s hope. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/12 "2010-03-22T02:10:45Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Am listing to the debate right now. > > After listening for 30 minutes, I truly believe the Democrats eventually want to implement a European-style, government-run, single-payer system. And that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/13 "2010-03-22T02:12:51Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Am listing to the debate right now. > > After listening for 30 minutes, I truly believe the Democrats eventually want to implement a European-style, government-run, single-payer system. We can dream, can’t we? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/14 "2010-03-22T02:15:06Z")
> [@Piker](#): > > I think its pretty obvious that the party that campaigns on the assertion that government is dysfunctional has an incentive to make government dysfunctional. And some people would argue that _that’s_ a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/15 "2010-03-22T02:17:27Z")
After a couple of hours of CSPAN histrionics, I’m ready to hurl. This isn’t debate, it’s grandstanding while being paid by our tax dollars. It’s electioneering without substance. It’s a bunch of lawyers that should have been drowned at birth, a bunch of Bachmann-like loonies who should be impeached, a bunch of babbling old fools, fat-cat doctors and rich kids who are bored with their other lives. The party of “no” continues to obstruct. The right-wing demonstrators were calling black legislators the n-word and Barney Frank a fag and worse outside the Capitol. Real class acts, all. This is who votes on the right along with decent folks: the haters, the fascists, the skinheads, the KKK, the Birchers, all those whose agenda includes the exclusion or destruction of those not like them. It’s all a disgusting display of partisanship and assholery on both sides of the fence. And I probably should just not have another drink and go lie down. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/16 "2010-03-22T02:18:14Z")
> [@Digger1914](#): > > I’m just so frustrated by the whole process. [shrug] Can you think of a better process? “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.” – Winston Churchill ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/17 "2010-03-22T02:18:35Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Am listing to the debate right now. > > After listening for 30 minutes, I truly believe the Democrats eventually want to implement a European-style, government-run, single-payer system. I was really hoping that was what they would do this time. I was/am fairly disgusted that they pussed out – I believe a single-payer universal coverage system to give basic health care to everyone would be in the nation’s best interest and save us quite a bit of money overall. Employers or individuals could still purchase private health plans to supplement the basic universal plan, so the government wouldn’t have to pay for everything, just the normal stuff that a civilized society should make sure everyone has access to: vaccinations, fixing broken limbs, regular checkups, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/18 "2010-03-22T02:19:37Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Am listing to the debate right now. > > After listening for 30 minutes, I truly believe the Democrats eventually want to implement a European-style, government-run, single-payer system. As usual, that says more and worse about you than about the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Digger1914](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@Digger1914](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger1914)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/19 "2010-03-22T17:09:53Z")
So, what time does the world start to collapse and all, I’ve got a haircut appointment. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225/20 "2010-03-22T17:18:51Z")
> [@Digger1914](#): > > So, what time does the world start to collapse and all, I’ve got a haircut appointment. 2012, of course. **Do** try to keep up! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusted-by-politics-right-now-yet-another-health-care-thread/533225.md?page=2)