# Disgusting tale of woman's unsucessful search for emergency contraception **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272 "2006-09-26T21:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/261 "2013-01-08T18:19:50Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Ignoring the relative merits of ensuring access to contraception vs. maximising the freedoms of pharmacists, the code of ethics of the American Psychological Association includes the following: > > How would that be consistent with refusing non-contraceptive medication for a patient that had used contraceptives before? Those are very general words. Since the organization (and I assume you mean the American Pharmacists Association, whose code you quote, and not the American Psychological Association, whose name you invoke) adopted the very specific resolution supporting the right of a pharmacist to refuse to dispense in accord with his conscience, then these two dictates must be read together, giving effect to each. If there remains a conflict, then the later statement overrides the earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/262 "2013-01-08T18:21:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Now, how about you answering the point I raised? The point where you read people’s minds, tell them what they think and then imply that they are a hypocrite? Does not seem to be very productive. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/263 "2013-01-08T18:26:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > But your interpretation was flawed to begin with. I do not depend on public opinion polls to tell me the right thing to do, nor (as I suspect) do you. For instance, polls have consistently for many years validated the right of women to get abortions under many circumstances, including those of which you disapprove, but I don’t expect you to relinquish your beliefs on the basis of polling data. No. But I do acknowledge the legitimacy of the opposing view. By this I mean: abortion is – in my view – a moral wrong. But I recognize the law says it’s permissible, and so I regard the position of those that champion it to be reasonable. I disagree with them; I don’t say they’re illegitimate, crazy, evil, or any of the similar imprecations hurled at one’s opponents in these discussions. And while I admit that the site I chose deserves to have its bias questioned…why is a poll commissioned for the “National Women’s Law Center and Planned Parenthood Federation of America” free from any accusations of similar bias? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/264 "2013-01-08T18:27:39Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The point where you read people’s minds, tell them what they think and then imply that they are a hypocrite? > > Does not seem to be very productive. So forget my mind reading. You tell me what you think of the legitimacy of the APhA’s position. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/265 "2013-01-08T18:59:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And while I admit that the site I chose deserves to have its bias questioned…why is a poll commissioned for the “National Women’s Law Center and Planned Parenthood Federation of America” free from any accusations of similar bias? What about the Pew poll? Do you suspect that one is biased? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/266 "2013-01-08T19:05:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And while I admit that the site I chose deserves to have its bias questioned…why is a poll commissioned for the “National Women’s Law Center and Planned Parenthood Federation of America” free from any accusations of similar bias? Apples and oranges. The significance of your choosing [lifesitenews.com](http://lifesitenews.com) is that it apparently blinded you to the existence of numerous public opinion polls in which large majorities disapproved of pharmacists denying birth control prescriptions based on religious-oriented views (I did not say that the polls quoted on that site were biased and/or illegitimate). As for the NWLC/Planned Parenthood Poll, you may question whether or not it was biased, but then you’d have to explain why you’re, um, overlooking two other polls I explicitly cited (CBS News/New York Times and Pew Research Center on People and the Press polls) which arrived at similar results. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/267 "2013-01-08T19:19:32Z")
I think I remember a similar thread where **Bricker** showed that the woman in question had to do little more than walk across a street and down several doors to a competitor’s address. IIRC, he posted a Google map showing the outrage was over little more than a 2 or 3 minute walk. That being the case, what’s the big deal over a pharmacist who sends business elsewhere due to moral issues? In no time the word will be out and referrals will cease to that location. Assuming, of course, there is an reasonable alternative available for the woman, and the prescription script is not withheld. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/268 "2013-01-08T19:26:56Z")
I wouldn’t have a problem with a pharmacist refusing a prescription if: 1- he is obligated to return the prescription form or whatever the equivalent electronic process would be 2- there is a competitor within say 5 miles that will not refuse OR 3- every public hospital is required to stock and dispense medications that local pharmacists might refuse. If either option 2 or 3 are not available, then the pharmacy is acting as a quasi-monopoly and has an obligation to serve its customers. If you have a problem with people getting contraception or morning-after pills, then you should either stop being such a judgmental asshole or find yourself a different job. In any event, a pharmacist who would confiscate someone’s written prescription should be charged with theft and attempted battery. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/269 "2013-01-08T19:56:17Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That being the case, what’s the big deal over a pharmacist who sends business elsewhere due to moral issues? It’s bigoted and shows a total lack of professional responsibility. Such a person has demonstrated that he isn’t trustworthy enough to do the job and should be removed. If he’s willing to violate his professionalism out of one kind of bigotry, there’s no telling where else he’ll violate it. And that presumes that he’s alone and not part of an organized campaign, and that the woman can find another pharmacy that’ll serve her within a reasonable distance. This is equivalent to dismissing complaints about segregation by saying “Oh, the ‘colored people’ can just go to another store.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/270 "2013-01-08T20:06:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I think I remember a similar thread where **Bricker** showed that the woman in question had to do little more than walk across a street and down several doors to a competitor’s address. IIRC, he posted a Google map showing the outrage was over little more than a 2 or 3 minute walk. I don’t recall the Google map. I do recall his pooh-poohing the consequences of being denied contraception by a Conscience Pharmacist because one could obtain the medication at another location within reasonable distance. I also recall mentioning that violating someone’s right to legally prescribed medication is not excusable on such grounds, comparing it to denying someone the right to rent an apartment on racial or religious grounds and then excusing such behavior on the grounds that other lodging is available in the area. > [@](#): > > That being the case, what’s the big deal over a pharmacist who sends business elsewhere due to moral issues? The woman mentioned in the OP and [this woman](http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-27024002.html) might disagree with you. \*"After a sexual assault one recent weekend, a young Tucson woman spent three frantic days trying to obtain the drug to prevent a pregnancy, knowing that each passing day lowered the chance the drug would work. While calling dozens of Tucson pharmacies trying to fill a prescription for emergency contraception, she found that most did not stock the drug. When she finally did find a pharmacy with it, she said she was told the pharmacist on duty would not dispense it because of religious and moral objections."\* ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/271 "2013-01-08T20:22:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What about the Pew poll? Do you suspect that one is biased? The Pew poll seems to have confined its question to religious objections. As atheists are fond of reminding us, religious and moral are not the same sphere. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/272 "2013-01-08T20:24:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I don’t recall the Google map. I do recall his pooh-poohing the consequences of being denied contraception by a Conscience Pharmacist because one could obtain the medication at another location within reasonable distance. I also recall mentioning that violating someone’s right to legally prescribed medication is not excusable on such grounds, comparing it to denying someone the right to rent an apartment on racial or religious grounds and then excusing such behavior on the grounds that other lodging is available in the area. > The woman mentioned in the OP and [this woman](http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-27024002.html) might disagree with you. > > \*"After a sexual assault one recent weekend, a young Tucson woman spent three frantic days trying to obtain the drug to prevent a pregnancy, knowing that each passing day lowered the chance the drug would work. > > While calling dozens of Tucson pharmacies trying to fill a prescription for emergency contraception, she found that most did not stock the drug. > > When she finally did find a pharmacy with it, she said she was told the pharmacist on duty would not dispense it because of religious and moral objections."\* Three seconds of Google: [http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/centerDetails.asp?f=3261&a=90030&v=details#!service=emergency-contraception](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/centerDetails.asp?f=3261&a=90030&v=details#!service=emergency-contraception) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/273 "2013-01-08T20:25:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s bigoted and shows a total lack of professional responsibility. Why are you the one to declare what the standards of professional responsibility are for pharmacists? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/274 "2013-01-08T20:29:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s bigoted and shows a total lack of professional responsibility. Such a person has demonstrated that he isn’t trustworthy enough to do the job and should be removed. If he’s willing to violate his professionalism out of one kind of bigotry, there’s no telling where else he’ll violate it. Honestly, that’s a bit of a stretch I think. In what way is the pharmacist untrustworthy for, as it is in California (my state), following the law? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And that presumes that he’s alone and not part of an organized campaign, and that the woman can find another pharmacy that’ll serve her within a reasonable distance. This is equivalent to dismissing complaints about segregation by saying “Oh, the ‘colored people’ can just go to another store.” I think that was covered by the big IF within my previous post. _ **If** _ other sources are reasonably available for the medication. If they are not, then the situation changes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/275 "2013-01-08T22:11:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Three seconds of Google: > > [http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/centerDetails.asp?f=3261&a=90030&v=details#!service=emergency-contraception](http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-center/centerDetails.asp?f=3261&a=90030&v=details#!service=emergency-contraception) [30 seconds of Google](http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/140462-Rape-victim-Morning-after-pill-denied): _“The two also attempted to obtain the drug at a Planned Parenthood clinic, but could not afford the $70 cost and apparently were not informed that Planned Parenthood will work out payment on a sliding scale fee.”_ I can’t tell from this why there apparently was additional cost at the PP clinic (possibly PP would have required a repeat consultation with a physician, as to my knowledge PP clinics are not pharmacies that fill prescriptions from anywhere). The bottom line is that the woman was denied emergency contraception at a drugstore by a Conscience Pharmacist and stated she could not obtain it in a timely manner. I await your explanation as to why you think it’s OK for a pharmacy to violate someone’s right to medical care on the grounds that if you take enough trouble to look around, you might find another pharmacy that takes its responsibilities seriously. And please clarify which other rights you think are appropriate to deny, based on the argument that not everyone is doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/276 "2013-01-08T22:49:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why are you the one to declare what the standards of professional responsibility are for pharmacists? I’m someone who doesn’t think that religious bigotry has any place is the medical profession, that’s who. I’m someone who doesn’t think that they should be allowed to used their government-privileged position as a tool of persecution. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Honestly, that’s a bit of a stretch I think. In what way is the pharmacist untrustworthy for, as it is in California (my state), following the law? They demonstrate a willingness to subordinate a purely medical matter to their religious hatred of women. How is it any different than them, say, refusing to dispense painkillers to someone with cancer because cancer is God’s Judgement on sinners? And besides that, I wouldn’t trust someone like that to not start deliberately handing out the wrong medication to people he considers sinners to punish them for their “sins”. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/277 "2013-01-08T23:17:48Z")
I’m willing to say (and have said, very recently) that professionals should be guided by the best practices and position statements of their professional bodies. I’m also willing to say, in this case, that the APhA is wrong and immoral, and they should change their position. These are not conflicting statements. They are separate statements, and both are true. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/278 "2013-01-08T23:41:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I await your explanation as to why you think it’s OK for a pharmacy to violate someone’s right to medical care on the grounds that if you take enough trouble to look around, you might find another pharmacy that takes its responsibilities seriously. And please clarify which other rights you think are appropriate to deny, based on the argument that not everyone is doing it. I don’t accept that a person has a “right” to buy this particular product. But if they do, then let the government, that is “us”, provide it. Don’t force private citizens to do so. You have a right to free speech, but I don’t have to buy your soapbox for your or even agree to sell you one if I happen to be in the business. As a newspaper owner, I don’t have to print your editorial. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/279 "2013-01-08T23:49:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So forget my mind reading. You tell me what you think of the legitimacy of the APhA’s position. A national professional body of pharmacists is the appropriate body to set professional standards. I have said this clearly. So yes, it is legitimate. I do not agree with it however - in my opinion they should direct their members to fill all legal prescriptions. If a pharmacist has a moral quandry with providing medication legally prescribed by a doctor, then they should be free to find a profession where they will not have to do what they don’t like. Feel free to call me a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/280 "2013-01-09T00:06:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > … > > They demonstrate a willingness to subordinate a purely medical matter to their religious hatred of women. How is it any different than them, say, refusing to dispense painkillers to someone with cancer because cancer is God’s Judgement on sinners? And besides that, I wouldn’t trust someone like that to not start deliberately handing out the wrong medication to people he considers sinners to punish them for their “sins”. I’m quite curious. How did we get from a _moral objection_ to a _religious hatred_ in one sentence? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272.md?page=15)