# Disgusting tale of woman's unsucessful search for emergency contraception **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 26, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272 "2006-09-26T21:58:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/141 "2006-09-28T15:44:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Sarahfeena** > If you don’t like abortion, then work on solving the problems that lead to it, you know? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Anne Neville > I really, really wish more pro-life people thought like this. What gives either of you the reason to think pro-lifers don’t? Tell me Anne, what do pro-lifers think? Seriously. Why do you think it’s called Planned Parenthood? I think it missed the bit about the marchers carring signs telling people to screw using birth control and just get abortions. I don’t get all the drama. It’s not like we’re talking about an anti-abortion pill. It’s basically a birth control pill after the fact. Making a woman jump through hoops and be treated like they’re feeble minded is degrading. And you can bet men wouldn’t be put through this if the situation was reversed. I’d love to see how it would go over if a man had to go through this for a script for Viagra. After all there are healh risks involved. ---
**Author:** ![Septima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Septima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Septima)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/142 "2006-09-28T15:44:33Z")
I’m sorry. Any english language cite for stuff like this would be beyond my ability to screen properly. What if i acidentaly linked to some sort of raging religious nonsense? I wouldn’t be able to see the red flags. What I do know is that taking them to often, within the same cycle, can lead to distubances in mentrual cycle, and possibly to more long-term hormone imbalace. Not sure how serious that is, but sounds like a risk to me, albeit a low one. Dammit, I’m FOR the things. I’m trying to make the point that this treatment should me available to anyone, anytime, and not made unobtainable just because some addle-brained asshat decides to take fifteen doses at once every three days, and chase them with tequila. There are, AFAIK, no real risk if they are used properly. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/143 "2006-09-28T16:01:30Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] What gives either of you the reason to think pro-lifers don’t? Tell me Anne, what do pro-lifers think? Seriously. Why do you think it’s called Planned Parenthood? I think it missed the bit about the marchers carring signs telling people to screw using birth control and just get abortions. [/QUOTE] I don’t know what your point is supposed to be here, exactly, but I AM a pro-lifer, and I DO know how many of them think. This happens to be MY POV as a pro-lifer, so now know how THIS pro-lifer thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/144 "2006-09-28T16:04:07Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] Apparently not. Does this include abortions? Can doctor exercise no moral discretion? I thought we had already determined that the story was likely Bullshit. Huh? One does not follow from the other. Otherwise you would be able to use that argument for ALL prescription drugs which would mean that Aspirin is the most dangerous drug on earth. Here’s an example: morphine requires a prescription, if aspirin came out today, it would require a subscription, ergo morphine is likely less harmful than aspirin. You should just leave it at “I want the freedom to exercise choice AND I want everyone to support my exercise of that choice” [/QUOTE] You don’t have much business opining on this issue at all, given this post in which you made it clear that you don’t even know what drug is being discussed here: > [@col\_10022](#): > > Why can’t you ask? Or do we place the onus on the doctor to inform everyone of the availability of what has been called the “abortion pill” and then tell them that they will not prescribe it? The fact that so many of the counterarguments to this drug are made from a position of ignorance is a big problem to me. [QUOTE=Bricker] As I said before, your position is reasonable, although it’s not the position I would champion – and it sounds like you agree that MY position is reasonable, although it’s not the position you would champion. See, this is what I like – a recognition that the opponent is reasonable, even if wrong. Too bad we can’t see this more around here, and I truly appreciate seeing when it is here. [/QUOTE] Even if I disagree with a viewpoint, I can respect an opinion based on intelligent analysis and logic. My problem is with people who hold views predicated on ignorance or confusion. Reasonable people can disagree on a lot of issues; I try not to be strident or pretend that my own views are magically privileged - something particularly important when both viewpoints rest on equally defensible premises. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/145 "2006-09-28T16:14:06Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] What gives either of you the reason to think pro-lifers don’t? Tell me Anne, what do pro-lifers think? Seriously. Why do you think it’s called Planned Parenthood? I think it missed the bit about the marchers carring signs telling people to screw using birth control and just get abortions. [/QUOTE] PP are pro-lifers…who knew :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/146 "2006-09-28T16:19:51Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] Apparently not. [/quote] I don’t understand your point. What, then, is the standard of practice? > [@](#): > > Does this include abortions? Can doctor exercise no moral discretion? If one is an OB/Gyn, yes, UNLESS, as I’ve stated before, it’s made clear to women approaching the practice that this doctor will not perform abortions. A doctor should not bait-and-switch a potential patient by implicitly promising to provide one kind of care (modern, allopathic western medicine, including all legal treatments within the scope of practice of an MD and not medically contraindicated) and then providing another type of care. If you want to open “Col’s Pro-life OB/Gyn Clinic” or “Col’s Crystal Healing Palace” or “Col’s Chiropractic”, then go for it. But unless I see specific claims otherwise, I’m going to assume that my OB/Gyn uses all the medically appropriate techniques available and standard to the specialty. Don’t like doing abortions? Be up front, or be a podiatrist. > [@](#): > > I thought we had already determined that the story was likely Bullshit. I don’t think we have. I think a few people have opined that they find the source exaggerates some stories. So what? Inappropriate questions in a work of fiction are still examples of inappropriate questions. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Word is that asprin wouldn’t be approved OTC if it came out today - ergo, the emergency contraception is likely less harmful than asprin. > > Huh? One does not follow from the other. Otherwise you would be able to use that argument for ALL prescription drugs which would mean that Aspirin is the most dangerous drug on earth. Here’s an example: morphine requires a prescription, if aspirin came out today, it would require a subscription, ergo morphine is likely less harmful than aspirin. One exactly follows the other. You just aren’t following me. Emergency contraception HAS been approved OTC. It will become available in January. It now has the same legal status as asprin, or Tylenol, or Vicks Vapo-Rub. Asprin, if submitted for approval today, would probably NOT recieve OTC status, but be prescription only due to it’s varied and common side effects. So most OTC drugs, emergency contraception included, are likely safer than asprin for self-diagnosis and treatment. You know what, forget the asprin. It’s confusing, I get that. Let’s instead look at the [FDA requirements](http://www.fda.gov/cder/offices/otc/default.htm) for an OTC drug: > [@](#): > > ``` > * their benefits outweigh their risks > * the potential for misuse and abuse is low > * consumer can use them for self-diagnosed conditions > * they can be adequately labeled > * health practitioners are not needed for the safe and effective use of the product > > ``` That’s it in captain dummy-speak. There’s lots more info you can find from navigating from that link. But it all boils down to this: Emergency contraception, like any other approved Over-The-Counter drug, has greater benefits than risks, the potential for misuse and abuse is low, consumers can use them for self-diagnosed conditions, they can be labeled with all the information you need to know about them (in reasonable English, not complicated medical terms), and there is no need for a doctor to monitor their use for safety and effectiveness. So anyone claiming they are dangerous or can easily be abused is going to be asked for cites, even if we’re in the goat-felching pit. > [@](#): > > You should just leave it at “I want the freedom to exercise choice AND I want everyone to support my exercise of that choice” I could, or I could call bullshit where I see bullshit and demand reasonable attempts to fight ignorance on a message board dedicated to doing so (see, it’s up on the top of the page^). I choose the later, if only to give \*\*Excalibre \*\*more information so he can help scared women decide if emergency contraception is right with them, since soon it won’t take a doctor to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/147 "2006-09-28T16:30:14Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] I could, or I could call bullshit where I see bullshit and demand reasonable attempts to fight ignorance on a message board dedicated to doing so (see, it’s up on the top of the page^). I choose the later, if only to give \*\*Excalibre \*\*more information so he can help scared women decide if emergency contraception is right with them, since soon it won’t take a doctor to do it. [/QUOTE] Wait, what? Why me? I was already in favor of emergency contraception. And when would I be in the position to help scared women decide such things anyway? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/148 "2006-09-28T16:35:27Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Wait, what? Why me? I was already in favor of emergency contraception. And when would I be in the position to help scared women decide such things anyway? [/QUOTE] :smack: Because I’m a moron and temporarily got you confused with **AHunter3** , who posted [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7814526&postcount=51) earlier in the thread. I’ll confess, you both fit into that Doper category in my brain entitled: Brilliant people with whom I may not always agree, but respect like no one’s business and occasionally exchange barbs with. There, darnit. You made me say something nice about you in a pit thread. Now go fuck off. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/149 "2006-09-28T16:40:55Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] PP are pro-lifers…who knew :dubious: [/QUOTE] Woops! I meant pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/150 "2006-09-28T16:53:12Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] What gives either of you the reason to think pro-lifers don’t? Tell me Anne, what do pro-lifers think? [/QUOTE] I’m not saying all of them don’t think this way (obviously, **Sarahfeena** is pro-life, and does). I’m saying some don’t, and I wish they all did. > [@col\_10022](#): > > Why can’t you ask? It seems a reasonable assumption to me that a doctor is going to be willing to prescribe any medication that’s not medically contraindicated or illegal. If that’s not the case, I should be told that. I don’t think that should only apply to emergency contraception, either. If my doctor is against prescribing medicines for psychiatric conditions (for example), I think they should tell me that, too. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/151 "2006-09-28T17:11:09Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] I’m not saying all of them don’t think this way (obviously, **Sarahfeena** is pro-life, and does). I’m saying some don’t, and I wish they all did. [/quote] I meant **pro-choice** , sorry for the typo. I even previewed and missed that. I’m pretty certain that all people that are pro-choice absolutely believe that that abortion is absolutely the last resort. Planned Parenthood is all about teaching women ways to be responsible and prevent unplanned pregnancy. I don’t see where people are getting the impression that this isn’t the goal of P.P. or people that are pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/152 "2006-09-28T17:14:49Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] :smack: Because I’m a moron and temporarily got you confused with **AHunter3** , who posted [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7814526&postcount=51) earlier in the thread. I’ll confess, you both fit into that Doper category in my brain entitled: Brilliant people with whom I may not always agree, but respect like no one’s business and occasionally exchange barbs with. There, darnit. You made me say something nice about you in a pit thread. Now go fuck off. 😃 [/QUOTE] You confused me with _him?_ ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/153 "2006-09-28T17:38:44Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] You confused me with _him?_ [/QUOTE] Can I, in any way, escape this with honor and dignity intact? How 'bout if I tell you I have two babies on my lap and a head full of cold medicine and I didn’t sleep at all last night and all is not right in my world? Any mercy? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/154 "2006-09-28T18:03:36Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] You confused me with _him?_ [/QUOTE] That’s _nothing!_ Earlier, **WhyNot** confused you with **me**! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/155 "2006-09-28T18:05:21Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] I meant **pro-choice** , sorry for the typo. I even previewed and missed that. I’m pretty certain that all people that are pro-choice absolutely believe that that abortion is absolutely the last resort. Planned Parenthood is all about teaching women ways to be responsible and prevent unplanned pregnancy. I don’t see where people are getting the impression that this isn’t the goal of P.P. or people that are pro-choice. [/QUOTE] At least all reasonable, responsible pro-choicers believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/156 "2006-09-28T21:22:27Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] … But I do feel compelled to defend the US. The thing about the US is that it is a huge, huge country that is essentially made up of many different cultures… If getting this kind of medical care is important to a person, they would be well advised to live reasonably near a large metro area where attitudes are more liberal. …This is the beauty of the US…the freedom of choice. [/QUOTE] Thanks for your post, **Sarafeehna**. It was interesting for me to ponder the differences between our two countries in this respect. Holland is about the size of Massachusets, so absolutely tiny. Yet there live 17 million people, about 6 % of the USA population. There is really not enough space to have a spatial divide in the way you described, although I can understand the beauty of it. One last point though. I can understand, that, if I had pro-life opinions, I would prefer to live among people who share the same values. But unwanted and unplanned pregnancies are by definition just that; they can happen to anyone, including pro-life women. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/157 "2006-09-28T21:38:02Z")
[QUOTE=Anne Neville] At least all reasonable, responsible pro-choicers believe that. [/QUOTE] Yet when you press them many find that nothing _at all_ should prevent the maximal freedom of “choice” under _all circumstances_. It’s a philosophical position equal to that of the anti-choice hardcore referenced by the OP. Personally, I see nothing wrong with putting restrictions on terminating a life that’s pretty much been shown to be nearly equal that of a living child, and nothing wrong with having no restrictions at all on terminating something no more advanced than a tadpole. And restricting measures to prevent pregnancy from even occuring, to quote Cecil, doesn’t even make stupid sense. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/158 "2006-09-28T21:39:35Z")
[QUOTE=Maastricht] Thanks for your post, **Sarafeehna**. It was interesting for me to ponder the differences between our two countries in this respect. Holland is about the size of Massachusets, so absolutely tiny. Yet there live 17 million people, about 6 % of the USA population. There is really not enough space to have a spatial divide in the way you described, although I can understand the beauty of it. [/QUOTE] Thank you for taking it in the spirit in which it was intended! I understand that not all countries are structured the same way, and that most countries are a _little_ more homogeneous in terms of culture. In the US, we have to try to integrate large populations of people from all corners of the globe and every conceivable culture, so it is a little more of an imperative that we have a way for people to be able to live together under one big umbrella of “being American.” Although 17 million is a lot of people to fit into a small area, it is still a pretty small population when you consider that we are nearing 300,000,000. When you consider this, as well as the huge melting pot of cultures we accomodate, I’m sure it becomes a little more clear why it is more difficult to get the entire population to agree on these kinds of issues, and why it is not necessarily desirable for the federal government to force the population to agree, whether they like it or not. > [@](#): > > One last point though. I can understand, that, if I had pro-life opinions, I would prefer to live among people who share the same values. But unwanted and unplanned pregnancies are by definition just that; they can happen to anyone, including pro-life women. Absolutely they can, and I believe that pro-lifers have varying opinions on whether or not Plan B violates their pro-life beliefs. However, in the event of actually having an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy, a sincere pro-lifer woud find a different solution to the problem other than abortion. ---
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/159 "2006-09-28T22:05:54Z")
This thread has been particularly scarey for me, especially after watching a 60 minutes doco on Christian youth camps and the increasing number of christian generation Yers who are against abortion and gays. Australia, although less in number has a hugely diverse population and yet it is still a ‘normal’ request to get EC over the counter. I have got it in NZ - not all chemists stock it but most do and they certainly are not at liberty to ask the kind of questions the OP has shown. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2006, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272/160 "2006-09-29T14:38:23Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] You don’t have much business opining on this issue at all, given this post in which you made it clear that you don’t even know what drug is being discussed here: The fact that so many of the counterarguments to this drug are made from a position of ignorance is a big problem to me. Even if I disagree with a viewpoint, I can respect an opinion based on intelligent analysis and logic. My problem is with people who hold views predicated on ignorance or confusion. Reasonable people can disagree on a lot of issues; I try not to be strident or pretend that my own views are magically privileged - something particularly important when both viewpoints rest on equally defensible premises. [/QUOTE] I think I know what we are talking about. I am pro-choice but that choice extends to the doctors as well, I can’t imagine forcing doctors to presecribe an ex-post contraceptive drug (which some people have called an abortion pill). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disgusting-tale-of-womans-unsucessful-search-for-emergency-contraception/374272.md?page=9)