# Disingenuous assertions by Tuba re status restoration **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 10, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-assertions-by-tuba-re-status-restoration/520708 "2009-12-10T08:16:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 1\ **Showing post:** 27
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2009, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-assertions-by-tuba-re-status-restoration/520708/27 "2009-12-12T07:36:33Z")
First, I must say I’m always amused when “the wingers” feel so outraged by a post they consider to be trivial and petty that they feel it necessary to spend the time and effort to submit a trivial and petty post _complaining_ about it. Always good for a laugh… Second, what part of **“Note that my post there and this thread here is _not_ a request to restore my status”** is so confusing to so many of you? All the posts mocking me for trying to get my status restored at this late date are considerably more than a little pretty and absurd given the actual words of my OP. The point of my OP is that the word “cannot” means that there is **no way that something can be done**. On its own, as **Tuba** repeatedly used it in this context, I can see no genuinely honest way it can be asserted to mean that something is against policy. If it is against policy, **say _that_** , not that it “cannot” be done. My point that using that word in place of an honest declaration is disingenuous **stands**. I’ve seen no hint of any intellectually honest rebuttal to that observation. And **TubaDiva** is not the only person who misuses that word, which really is a disingenuous cop-out when used in that manner. It’s been abused by plenty of others as an evasion to conceal the fact that someone _can indeed_ do something but simply chooses _not_ to do it (for whatever reason). Here are just two among many examples from real life: (1): A slimy company named Trilegiant tricked me (and a million or so other people) into a “free” membership in something that turned out not to be free at all. When I discovered I had been conned, I finally got through to the company (after 25-30 attempts) and demanded a refund. They replied that they **“cannot”** do what I asked. It was just as disingenuous for them as it is for **Tuba**. When I contacted the Attorney General and they contacted Trilegiant, it turned out that they _could_, in fact, do it _after all_ and then did so. (2): A credit card company wrote me that they were going to jack up my interest rate to effectively usurious levels at a date that corresponded with my normal payment date unless I chose to close the account. But then they messed around with the payment date such that I missed the magic date by one day. When I called them and asked them to close the account and leave the old interest rate in force, they sent me up and up the chain of command whereupon the high-ranking person emphatically insisted: “I **cannot** do that for you, sir”. When I contacted the Attorney General and they contacted the company in question, it turned out that they _could_, in fact, do it _after all_ and then did so. Lesson? People should not use the word “cannot” when in reality it could indeed be done. If something is against policy, be honest enough to say so and do not hide behind that disingenuous evasion of claiming it “cannot” be done. Here is just a small sampling of the background of this issue showing that I am far from alone in criticizing this disingenuous choice of words: > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/18): > > I have no doubt that an Admin _could_ manually change the title under the member’s name, but that would only change the title, not revert their subscription price. > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/19): > > 99% of the complaints are about the lost title, not the extra 7 bucks. For some reason dopers are crazy about that title. TPTB have decided to draw a line in the sand around a stupid and arbitrary issue. **But suggesting that you cannot change the CM title is disingenuous.** > > ETA - if you wanted to, you could change any and every title you wanted to CM. But you \*choose \*not to. That pisses a lot of people off. **And suggesting you cannot is disingenuous**. > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/21): > > I have just been assuming that they are saying “we can’t do it” because that forestalls a lot of the complaints about “But I only missed the deadline by 2 hours/didn’t get the email/was in a foreign country” etc. I have additionally been assuming that it’s absolutely not true, **because the idea that there is some kind of magical database that cannot be altered by human hands is a little bit ridiculous.** I’m sure that if TPTB wanted to, they could rework the Charter Member database so that people could be moved back into it, or whatever. But the policy is that once you’re out, you’re out. I understand, **but saying that it is physically impossible and beyond the ken of human understanding to be able to reinstate a Charter Member seems… silly**. 🙂 > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/22): > > And untruthful… > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/26): > > Oh fuck, never mind. You and Tuba are not going to actually answer the question, so what’s the point of repeating it? > > But for posterity’s sake: If your customers want to retain their TITLE “ **Charter Member** ” can you please provide them this service? > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/29): > > So far as I am aware, the question has never been asked before. We’ve always assumed that “Charter Membership” meant the title, the lower fee, and the rights and privileges thereunto pertaining. We (mods and admins) have no power over the fees &c. **We can do a title change.** We will start discussion amongst the mods over **whether we’d want to**. > > There would be some logisitical and procedural questions to overcome ( **for instance, how to verify that someone WAS indeed a legit “Charter Member”** ) but let us discuss and see what we come up with. > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/32): > > … Possibly, you could argue that: Anyone who HAD the title “Charter Member” but lost it due to late payment, who continues to pay full membership price, should be given the title of “Charter Member.” I see no justification whatsoever for someone who joins up today for the first time and pays membership dues and wants “Charter Member” title. > > In the past, our perception has certainly been that people who lose “Charter Member” status are concerned about the loss of the status – lower fees, etc – **and not just the title.** … > > … > > I don’t know how many people there are who have lost status but would like the title; I don’t know how difficult it will be to confirm that they had that status but lost it; and I don’t know how often that title change will need to be redone (possibly every year at subscription renewal? ) **The result of that discussion _could_ be that this is a great deal of work on the part of the mods/admins, and that would be good reason to reject the concept…** and will have nothing to do with “not being very bright” or “playing God.” If it goes that way, it will have to do with us mods/admins being unpaid volunteer positions who are already way overworked. > > [ambushed’s note of 12/12/09: I watched this thread and general topic for some time without any announcement of a decision. It was after this apparent absence of a decision that I started gathering evidence of my Charter Membership to use in requesting that _just the title_ be restored as **Dex** was talking about possibly allowing.] > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/36): > > All they failed to do was pay bang on time. This is the type of poster I believe **Dex** is referring back for discussion. > > I’ve got some sympathy with late payers who lose the charter title. If I don’t pay my electricity bill by the due date I get a reminder giving me seven days to pay. If I still don’t cough up, the company gives seven days notice of disconnection. My service is not removed at the first available opportunity. I get fourteen days grace. Furthermore, I get letters rather than emails that could find their way into my spam folder. I am not, of course, suggesting that the SD sends letters to people who have failed to renew on time but, when pay to post first arrived, it might have been better to offer a period of grace whereby a poster could reinstate himself/herself as a Charter Member by paying within seven or 14 days. > > It seem like your situation was more of a personal choice than a late payment. > > No horse in this contest. > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/38): > > Which, of course, got us used to that being how it worked. > > In any case, as I indicated in the other thread on the topic, having the title “Charter Member” is irrationally important to me for no obvious reason, and I will happily pay $15 a year for it (along with not seeing ads, being able to search, etc.). > But I’m very grumpy about the way the situation was handled. > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/42): > > Why not just charge a fee for manually changing the titles of those who are willing to pay it? Maybe a one time $25.00 fee to restore a CM title if it has expired? Or perhaps a $100.00 fee would allow for the time and resources needed to rework the database system that is preventing easy restoration of this membership level now. For that matter, why not offer a menu of titles for a price? (“Grand Poobah” for a one time fee of 250.00, or “Unca Cece’s Favorite” for a one time fee of, say, One Billion Dollars). It seems the title, and the title alone, is worth something to many, I think the SDMB is missing a golden revenue stream if typing 2 words into a database under the members name could generate more revenue than the subscription itself. > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/43): > > Do you really expect us to believe this [i.e., that the title **cannot** be restored]? I don’t. > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/51): > > That would be a really nice touch. As others have said, it’s not the price (and what other rights ans privs were there? Did I miss out on the sanctioned orgies?), it’s the title. **I just want the title back.** > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/52): > > \*\*AHunter3 > > Charter Member > Weenie\*\* > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/59): > > I frankly think this is a bunch of bunk. Those of us who have been here for nigh on 10 years now lose status because we happened to be on vacation when the membership lapsed, and now it can never be reinstated? **I KNOW you can change the status for members, because this BB software allows it…other boards I’ve been a part of with this software change the status of people to a wide variety of things at their request ..so I’d be really interested in knowing why YOU can’t do it.** It honestly feels like a huge slap in the face. > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/69): > > Standard terms on bills are 30 days. Perfectly reasonably to expect that. > > Some didn’t receive an email for whatever reason, some while on vaca due to the short lead time, etc. > > It’s perfectly reasonable to expect to be notified 30 days in advance of a bill being due, like just about any other bill you get. > > As for the “you should just remember it”: Why? With about 38,172 things to remember, should we all duplicate what goes on in the computer systems of every entity with which we interact? No, that is absurd. It’s a standard operating procedure (yes, I know, there are exceptions) to be notified 30 days in advance of a bill being due by the biller. > > That’s why people whine. Perfectly reasonable, **doesn’t mean they are guaranteed to get their way, _it just means some have a reasonable complaint._** > [@How did I get downgraded from Charter Member to Guest?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-did-i-get-downgraded-from-charter-member-to-guest/497936/74): > > … (Note to SDMB staff: My point here is not to make any judgements regarding how the board is run, **I merely disagree with the world view that ignores the reality and complexity of life in favor of a simplistic black and white version** ). … > > Realistically it’s a partnership, as is the relationship with the SDMB. There is some black and some white and various shades of grey in between. … **And here’s more proof that few critics here bothered to read the OP with care, such that not even TubaDiva bothered to read it with any care** : > [@TubaDiva](#): > > No, I’m not – he’s alleging something that happened six months ago. NOW he wants something done? :: sigh :: What part of **“Note that my post there and this thread here is _not_ a request to restore my status”** is so confusing to you, **Tuba**? Surely I have a right to expect you to read OPs more carefully, especially before being chastised by a senior authority for requesting something I actually had not requested, don’t I? > [@TubaDiva](#): > > He didn’t resubscribe until a couple of months after his Charter Membership expired, even. :: sigh :: A request was made by Jerry (or whatever tech person was involved) that we didn’t bother him with complaints about title changes because he was much too busy dealing with all the technical problems. He asked that we just wait it out and see if it fixes itself. I was also waiting for **Dex** or whoever to publicly issue a decision. To the best of my knowledge (and I was watching for some time) that never happened. As a result, I felt it was incumbent on me to substantiate my _bona fides_ as a charter member, but my entire history since 1999 showed me to be a “guest” (as one would expect given how this software works), so I had to turn to external documentation. I discovered that nothing on my current hard disks or (apparently) in the Internet archives documented my status, so I was forced to spend a great deal of additional time trying to find such, which I eventually did. _That_ was when I requested that just my title be restored, since I didn’t care much about the lower price. I considered that a valid compromise. And _that_ was when you told me that you **“cannot”** do anything about it; that it was utterly beyond even _your_ capabilities. After hearing that, can you blame me for thinking that nothing could be done at all? When I tried all that time later to purchase a regular membership, I did so on a lark. Since you told me that there was nothing that could be done, I was quite surprised to learn that that wasn’t entirely true and that by paying for a membership at least restored my join date. > [@TubaDiva](#): > > It is incumbent upon everyone who subscribes to the Straight Dope to keep an eye on when that subscription expires. There was a lot of traffic on the board about this issue at resubscription time and people were sent emails in advance of their subscription expiring. (Not a lot of advance, I do admit – but notices were sent.) Look, we _paid_ you for a service; to deny any responsibility on the part of the SDMB whatsoever would make you a truly execrable service provider, and I certainly don’t believe you deserve such criticism – except if you try to deny all responsibility. I am almost always ridiculously overburdened with responsibilities already, what with caring for two seriously ill parents and all the other heavy responsibilities I must bear. Is it really so much to ask that my service providers work with me and offer some reasonable flexibility when I fail to keep track of all my 38,172 ( **RaftPeople** ’s estimate) responsibilities? Not one other of my service provider’s rules are as draconian as that! And as many have pointed out, many of us did not receive the renewal email. Pointing out that there are other alternatives, especially _after_ the fact (as has been overwhelmingly the case) is simply not good enough. Why? Because with all of my responsibilities, I can almost never afford to take the time to browse around and visit ATMB or even the header of each forum during renewal season (although I only _now_ know I can renew at any time). All I usually ever have time for is reading and responding to threads in which I’ve made comments. To do that, I go directly to search for my username to see where I am due to issue replies. That being the case, I would not see forum headers or visit ATMB. Going out of my way to check these locations should not be a hard and fast **requirement** to maintain a membership; the SDMB should bear much more responsibility than that. **But again, my purpose here is simply to point out that using the word “cannot” is disingenuous**. > [@TubaDiva](#): > > And no, I’m not authorized by management to change a user title like that . There! **Was that really so hard to say in place of “cannot” do it?** Sheesh! - - --- _[View the full topic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-assertions-by-tuba-re-status-restoration/520708)._