# Disingenuous "gay marriage" phone spam **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 1, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237 "2004-11-01T03:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/1 "2004-11-01T03:10:50Z")
For those of you who don’t know, Michigan is one of the states that has an anti-gay marriage proposal on the ballot this Tuesday. The proposal is, I’m ashamed to say, supported by about a two-to-one margin in the latest poll I’ve seen. That particular fact, combined with the relatively close presidential race, evidently inspired someone. Just which someone I don’t know, but I’m dying to find out. Why? Because that someone was responsible for the following message, transcribed verbatim, that was on my answering machine when I got home this evening: > [@](#): > > When you vote this Tuesday, remember to legalize gay marriage by supporting John Kerry. We need John Kerry in order to make gay marriage legal for our cities\*. Gay marriage is a right we all want. It’s a basic Democrat [sic] principle. It’s time to move forward and be progressive. Without John Kerry, George Bush will stop gay marriage. That’s why we need Kerry. So Tuesday, stand up for gay marriage by supporting John Kerry. Do I really need to explain why I think this is wrong? Wrong on multiple levels? I suppose I could rant and rave about it, but… I just don’t have the energy, not now at the end of October. But you, whoever you are, shame on you. Shame. [sub]\*No, I _don’t_ know why gay marriage in cities is more important than rural gay marriage.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/2 "2004-11-01T03:13:36Z")
I so wish I could say that I’m surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/3 "2004-11-01T03:20:29Z")
Didn’t Kerry say that he was _ **not** _ in support of gay marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/4 "2004-11-01T03:24:35Z")
“Remember to vote for puppy molestation by voting for Bush…” Is there any campaign law against this? It’s even more disingenuous than [push polls](http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Push_poll). ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/5 "2004-11-01T04:20:20Z")
Sounds like something left by a Republican group. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/6 "2004-11-01T04:51:40Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > Didn’t Kerry say that he was _ **not** _ in support of gay marriage? Yes, and on more than one occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/7 "2004-11-01T05:47:18Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > Sounds like something left by a Republican group. “Of _course_ he’s a Russkie!” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/8 "2004-11-01T13:15:32Z")
THAT is a “classic” dirty trick. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/9 "2004-11-01T13:17:50Z")
Although I should point something out here: several posters here, over the last few months, have suggested that Kerry HAS to say he’s against same-sex marriage, or he’d be unelectable. But really, in his heart, these posts have invited us to infer, he’s not opposed to it. Is there any validity whatsoever in that assumption? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/10 "2004-11-01T13:34:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Is there any validity whatsoever in that assumption? Only inasmuch as he’s explicitly stated (with reference to abortion, I believe) that he does not believe that his personal religious convictions should be the basis of setting policy or prescribing the behaviour of others who might not share them. Ah, here’s the quote: > [@](#): > > “I can’t take what is an article of faith for me and legislate it for someone who doesn’t share that article of faith, whether they be agnostic, atheist, Jew, Protestant, whatever. I can’t do that,” Kerry said when asked about abortion at his second debate with President Bush. Not much to hang your hat on, but still a fairly indication that Kerry prefers not to legislate his faith. I would tend to think that Kerry is indeed opposed to gay marriage, but it seems plain from the above that he is prepared to be more tolerant than Bush is on such matters. Like I say; not a vast distinction, but it’s something, I guess. I also think that those posters you are referring to certainly have a valid point; Kerry’s position is pretty much the most liberal that a presidential candidate could get away with at present. I wouldn’t assume that he really supports SSM, but I do think that if he did, he wouldn’t say so. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/11 "2004-11-01T13:55:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Although I should point something out here: several posters here, over the last few months, have suggested that Kerry HAS to say he’s against same-sex marriage, or he’d be unelectable. But really, in his heart, these posts have invited us to infer, he’s not opposed to it. > > Is there any validity whatsoever in that assumption? I think you’re mischaracterizing the statements. John Kerry does not support the right of gay folk to marry. He does, in contrast to Bush, support creating civil unions which afford the same privledges and responsibilities for homosexuals. His support for an outright ban on marriage is contingent on the availability of those civil unions. No one has implied any differently. The nuance, which being a Bush supporter I’m not suprized you missed, is that Kerry would **not** be making a campaign issue of this and would likely have never addressed it without the Bush campaign and the Religious Right making it a litmus test… ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/12 "2004-11-01T14:40:03Z")
Did you save it? You should be reporting it to the Kerry campaign in MI. It’s clearly a smear campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/13 "2004-11-01T16:00:09Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > I think you’re mischaracterizing the statements. John Kerry does not support the right of gay folk to marry. He does, in contrast to Bush, support creating civil unions which afford the same privledges and responsibilities for homosexuals. His support for an outright ban on marriage is contingent on the availability of those civil unions. No one has implied any differently. I’m not a Bush supporter either, and I’d say you were making a good point, except [Bush supports Civil Unions as well](http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/102604bushMarr.htm). You can argue the whys and wherefors about the reason he is taking that position until the cows come home, I know that a signifigant portion of these bords would take the position that the only reason Bush would save a child from a burning building would be to get his parent’s vote, and if the child was an orphan Bush would let him burn, but the fact of the matter is that supporting Civil Unions is George Bush’s official stance. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/14 "2004-11-01T16:18:44Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > …but the fact of the matter is that supporting Civil Unions is George Bush’s official stance. After, of course, floating the He-Man Hetero Gayhaters’ Anti-Gay Save Our Marriages Amendment to see if anyone saluted first… His campaign has a word for that. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/15 "2004-11-01T16:36:05Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I’m not a Bush supporter either, and I’d say you were making a good point, except [Bush supports Civil Unions as well](http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/102604bushMarr.htm). You can argue the whys and wherefors about the reason he is taking that position until the cows come home, I know that a signifigant portion of these bords would take the position that the only reason Bush would save a child from a burning building would be to get his parent’s vote, and if the child was an orphan Bush would let him burn, but the fact of the matter is that supporting Civil Unions is George Bush’s official stance. That sort of conflicts with his support for the FMA and the offical Republican Platform, though doesn’t it? > [@](#): > > Bush, said he continues to support a constitutional amendment that would define marriage as a union of a man and a woman, because he is concerned about what “activist judges” will do without clear guidelines. He’s speaking out of both sides of his mouth. In addition, that’s not the same position as Kerry because he doesn’t say his support for the ban is contingent on the creation of civil unions. He would support the ban without an alternative. Kerry’s consistent stand and Bush’s “Johnny-Come-Lately” backpedaling are not equivalent positions. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/16 "2004-11-01T17:02:46Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I’m not a Bush supporter either, and I’d say you were making a good point, except [Bush supports Civil Unions as well](http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/10/102604bushMarr.htm). Oh he does not either. Just because [365gay.com](http://365gay.com) wants to headline the article that way doesn’t make it so. Bush does not support civil unions. Assuming he actually believes what he said in this interview, and since he’s a damn liar who will say anything that pops into his pointy head if he “thinks” it will get him a few votes, then what he’s saying is that should a state implement civil unions he is disinclined to try to block them. He is also claiming to believe that extending “some” of the federal rights and responsibilities of marriage to same-sex couples might be A-OK with him, but did not offer an example of one such right. He has not backed off at all from his support of the FMA (which most people believe would if passed as written ban civil unions). “Not opposing” civil unions is not the same as “supporting” them. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/17 "2004-11-01T17:24:44Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Did you save it? You should be reporting it to the Kerry campaign in MI. It’s clearly a smear campaign. Yeah, I saved it. I also shot off an email to the Michigan Dems, but, realistically, I imagine they have bigger fish to fry on the day before the elections. I am honestly curious, though, who’s behind this and just how wide-spread it was/is. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/18 "2004-11-01T17:41:18Z")
Of the two candidates, which one should get the vote of a voter who wants to stand up for gay marriage and move it towards legality? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/19 "2004-11-01T17:45:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Of the two candidates, which one should get the vote of a voter who wants to stand up for gay marriage and move it towards legality? Kerry, obviously. He is not an advocate of gay marriage, but he is also not an ardent opponent. More important, Kerry will be appointing at least 2, and possibly 3, new Supreme Court justices, and that more than anything will matter when state laws allowing civil unions are challenged by the GOP trogs. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237/20 "2004-11-01T17:59:25Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > More important, Kerry will be appointing at least 2, and possibly 3, new Supreme Court justices, Please repeat this over and over again, will you? It’s the only reason I’m voting for Kerry. I’ve just been looking over his health care proposals and they are a dog’s breakfast. They’re designed to enhance access, not afordability, and are along the lines of what happened 10 years ago when the result was HIPPA, a government policy that has drastically increased heath insurance costs and let to 10 million people losing their HI in the last 10 years. This is one particular area where Bush is 100% on target with his proposals. I just hope Kerry gets elected, appoints his SC judges, and in 4 years we can move on to voting in a decent candidate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disingenuous-gay-marriage-phone-spam/272237.md?page=2)