# Dismantling Racism in Mathematics Instruction **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 15, 2021, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992 "2021-02-15T22:33:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/61 "2021-02-16T22:25:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They’re not seriously suggesting that having college students make music videos about binomials is solid pedagogy, are they? No, I didn’t get the impression that college math teachers were part of the intended audience. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/62 "2021-02-16T23:51:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If this pamphlet were saying to accept multiple different versions of work, it would be good advice Which it does: > Ask other questions that will demonstrate learning > when it is not clear to you how students know the > answer. > • Verbal Example: If you were working with a fellow > mathematician who was absent this day, what might > you tell them to help them learn it? > • Classroom Activity: Number talks, where students > have to engage with mental mathematics not limited > to computations. > • Professional Development: As a department, solve > complex problems without writing and share with > each other about that process. > Offer a variety of ways to demonstrate thinking and > knowledge. > • Verbal Example: Show your thinking with words, > pictures, symbols. > • Classroom Activity: Have students create TikTok > videos, silent films, or cartoons about mathematical > concepts or procedures. > • Professional Development: Practice with math > colleagues how to answer mathematical problems > without using words or numbers. > [@Chronos](#): > > So the best-case assumption for this thing is that it’s completely useless, My **best-case response** , as I tried to indicate above, is that this document _replicates the kind of problems students can have in class._ Imagine that you actually do know something about [the subject], and you’re sat down in class with [this document] in front of you, and now you have to [demonstrate your understanding] to the person who wrote it … In that case, a little ‘acting out’ might even be an understandable result, and should prompt a reconsideration of the lesson plan, rather than disciplinary action. > [@Chronos](#): > > (though it still wouldn’t have anything to do with race). As a _migrant_ I can clearly see what it has to do with _migrants_, so I don’t have any trouble with the suggestion that it might have something to do with ‘race’. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/63 "2021-02-17T00:07:46Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > My **best-case response** , as I tried to indicate above, is that this document _replicates the kind of problems students can have in class._ Yup. Unsurprisingly, given that the pamphlet’s creators at [the Pathway to Equitable Math Instruction project](https://equitablemath.org/) seem to be folks with a lot of experience in classroom teaching in mathematics. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/64 "2021-02-17T22:17:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > given that the pamphlet’s creators Reading the bio’s actually surprised me. I was guessing that the authors were not math teachers, had never actually ‘got’ math, and were extrapolating from their own experiences. Since I don’t like the pamphlet 🙂 I’m now wondering if the real situation is that they really only do math, and never actually mastered ‘English’. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/65 "2021-02-17T23:00:55Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Since I don’t like the pamphlet 🙂 I’m now wondering if the real situation is that they really only do math, and never actually mastered ‘English’. My impression from looking at this and the rest of the materials at that project is that their English is fine. Of course, elementary education is a very jargon-y field, but the authors include a glossary of terms. Moreover, I think the pamphlet makes more sense in the context of that entire project at the link rather than as an isolated document, although I still think some aspects of its approach are problematic. But you can see from the other documents that the project creators are extremely knowledgeable about the problems encountered by students who are non-native English speakers, and the ways such problems produce ripple effects in their education even in subjects like math that are ostensibly much less language-dependent. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/66 "2021-02-17T23:31:09Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > My **best-case response** , as I tried to indicate above, is that this document _replicates the kind of problems students can have in class._ Which doesn’t indicate that mathematics instruction is problematic. It indicates that this pamphlet is problematic. “This pamphlet about how math instruction is racist is hard to understand; therefore math instruction is racist” is a terrible argument. And if their message is “ask for your students to show their work in a variety of ways”, then they seriously undermined that when they said “don’t ask students to show their work”. > [@Melbourne](#): > > As a _migrant_ I can clearly see what it has to do with _migrants_ , so I don’t have any trouble with the suggestion that it might have something to do with ‘race’. OK, what does it have to do with migrants? It sure isn’t clear to me. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/67 "2021-02-18T00:08:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, what does it have to do with migrants? It sure isn’t clear to me. The whole Equitable Math Instruction project (of which this one pamphlet in the OP is just one piece of the toolkit) is largely geared to the math instruction needs of “English learners”, meaning non-native English speakers who are gaining English proficiency along with the regular junior-high curriculum. Unsurprisingly, a lot of those English learners (especially in California, where this project is based) are from migrant families. Again, you won’t get all this just from the one pamphlet linked in the OP, but that’s because the pamphlet wasn’t created as a standalone document: it’s part of the project’s “Math Equity Toolkit”. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/68 "2021-02-18T00:23:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The whole Equitable Math Instruction project (of which this one pamphlet in the OP is just one piece of the toolkit) is largely geared to the math instruction needs of “English learners”, meaning non-native English speakers who are gaining English proficiency along with the regular junior-high curriculum. I’m still not seeing where the white supremacy comes in. It’s such a loaded concept to throw into to pamphlet, especially when it is self-contradictory and itself agrees with the principle of « show your work ». ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/69 "2021-02-18T00:26:09Z")
Y’know it occurs to me, that there may be another matter of language here: one of translating _predominant cultural privilege_ (or presumption, if you don’t like the other pr-word) as _racism_. IMO these are not identical sets. Understandable, as in the American milieu it is generally understood that predominant cultural privilege = _ **white** _ privilege, so there is much of one contained in the other, but still not identical. ISTM the intent is to teach in such a manner that students that do not start from the same set of expectations or frame of reference don’t feel rigidly forced to do things “your” way or “the way **we** do it **here** ”; but still, you are to seek out other ways to elicit the evidence that they understand what they are doing and where are they stumbling. So it seems that there’s an issue with that “show your work” _as such_ is somehow the best way to ask someone to demonstrate how they are applying the learned skills? OK, I’ll take it, obviously it is over my head not being trained in pedagogy. * * * And oh, yeah: yes, simply tweeting “look what they are doing in Oregon!” and showing the document decontextualized, of course it looks terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/70 "2021-02-18T00:39:38Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’m still not seeing where the white supremacy comes in. It’s such a loaded concept to throw into to pamphlet Yeah, although probably less so for educators who routinely work with minority and ESL students. When you spend your working life among students who have a lot of personal experience with running up against white-supremacy mindsets, you tend to be more aware of it as an everyday phenomenon than the average American white person is. The project is connected to the [TODOS: Mathematics for ALL](https://www.todos-math.org/socialjustice) education-equity movement, so that fills in some more of the context as well. Of course, we can understand a fair amount of where the project creators are coming from without thinking that all their choices in explaining their aims were optimal. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/71 "2021-02-18T00:49:59Z")
Just to clarify, are any of you saying racism does not have any effect on Mathematics Instruction? I ask because I am pretty damn sure that racism makes the lives of many people considerably more difficult in absolutely every way and I don’t think nitpicking this pamphlet which is at least attempting to do something about the problem even if there is a lack of consensus on some of the details and definitions is a constructive exercise compared to the lack of alternatives solutions presented. And “Show your work” is just flat out stupid. If you want to know if students understand the processes then ask them in some meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/72 "2021-02-18T00:56:11Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t think nitpicking this pamphlet which is at least attempting to do something about the problem even if there is a lack of consensus on some of the details and definitions is a constructive exercise Fair point, but if we abstained from all nonconstructive nitpicking of random samples of text that some random people have their ideological knickers in a twist about, that would damn near wipe out the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/73 "2021-02-18T00:56:26Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > When you spend your working life among students who have a lot of personal experience with running up against white-supremacy mindsets, you tend to be more aware of it as an everyday phenomenon than the average American white person is. But the quote didn’t qualify it in any way. It just said that white supremacy shows up in classrooms when students are required to show their work. That’s a blanket accusation of white supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![Delayed\_Reflex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/delayed_reflex/32/3172_2.png) [@Delayed\_Reflex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delayed_Reflex)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/74 "2021-02-18T00:56:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@Melbourne](#): > > > > Since I don’t like the pamphlet 🙂 I’m now wondering if the real situation is that they really only do math, and never actually mastered ‘English’. > > My impression from looking at this and the rest of the materials at that project is that their English is fine. Of course, elementary education is a very jargon-y field, but the authors include a glossary of terms. > > Moreover, I think the pamphlet makes more sense in the context of that entire project at the link rather than as an isolated document, although I still think some aspects of its approach are problematic. But you can see from the other documents that the project creators are extremely knowledgeable about the problems encountered by students who are non-native English speakers, and the ways such problems produce ripple effects in their education even in subjects like math that are ostensibly much less language-dependent. I am a bit confused - is the premise that poor English language competency is responsible for poorer outcomes for math learning? From what I remember, many ESL (English as a second language) students in my class were top performers in math, so these students were obviously able to overcome the disadvantage associated with poor English language competency - would they have been even better at math if they had English as their primary language? Are you certain that it’s an issue of language and not of culture? I certainly can buy the concept that kids from different backgrounds might benefit from math being taught in different ways, but this pamphlet does not communicate that very clearly to me. Personally, assuming that the authors aren’t the greatest communicators is giving them the benefit of the doubt. For example, their section on “White supremacy culture shows up in math classrooms when… Grading practices are focused on lack of knowledge” asserts that “Grades are traditionally indicative of what students can’t do rather than what they can do, reinforcing perfectionism.” I struggle to envision a method of assessing a student’s knowledge that highlights what the student knows without also revealing deficits in their knowledge. The section also indicates that teachers should “emphasize formative assessment”, which I understand means to evaluate student comprehension and learning needs as part of the learning process, as opposed to as a method of judging students after learning is completed. But it certainly isn’t clear to me how emphasizing formative assessment would be in conflict with assessing deficiencies - if anything, assessing what a student can’t do seems critical to formative assessment to me. Many other concepts mentioned in the pamphlet seem to be self-contradictory (the “show your work in different ways” vs. “don’t ask students to show their work” that @Chronos mention stands out), so either the authors are not communicating their ideas well, or their ideas simply aren’t well formed to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/75 "2021-02-18T00:57:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Fair point, but if we abstained from all nonconstructive nitpicking of random samples of text that some random people have their ideological knickers in a twist about, that would damn near wipe out the SDMB. I’ve done plenty of that myself. But someone not knowing the cast of characters might interpret this thread in a very different way. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/76 "2021-02-18T01:02:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It just said that white supremacy shows up in classrooms when students are required to show their work. > > That’s a blanket accusation of white supremacy. Whoa, whoa. The text says that “white supremacy culture in the mathematics classroom can show up when”, followed by a bunch of traditional math pedagogy behaviors including “students are required to ‘show their work’”. No, that’s not accusing math teachers who engage in such behaviors of necessarily subscribing to white supremacist beliefs. > [@Delayed\_Reflex](#): > > I am a bit confused - is the premise that poor English language competency is responsible for poorer outcomes for math learning? Are you confused, though? I mean, we did discuss in earlier posts in this thread the potential connections between language expectations and math performance. Of course, nobody here is saying (and I really don’t think the pamphlet authors are saying) that every ESL student automatically performs worse in math than native English speakers. I’m getting an impression that some recreational knicker-twisting might be usurping the process of understanding and analyzing what the authors are trying to say. I’m not sure all of that can be blamed on the authors’ own shortcomings in conveying their meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/77 "2021-02-18T01:34:53Z")
I’m not reading the whole thing, but reading the first few pages, the pamphlet is clearly very, very problematic. This first thing that sticks out is the encouragment to choose problems with multiple right answers, which in my mind shows a basic misunderstanding of maths. It is important to have an understanding as to whether a question is well-posed or not as being able to use maths for practical purposes relies on being able to translate whatever practical problem you wish to solve in to a well-posed maths problem. However the pamphlet seems to suggest that problems should preferentially be ill-posed which seems to miss the entire point of maths. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/78 "2021-02-18T01:55:23Z")
Sorry, but can OP please provide a cite that confirms that this garbage is actually being officially distributed to teachers in Oregon? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/79 "2021-02-18T01:58:20Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > This first thing that sticks out is the encouragment to choose problems with multiple right answers, which in my mind shows a basic misunderstanding of maths. Hmm. The impression I got from looking at this and the other pamphlets in the toolkit is that the emphasis is on problems that have multiple solution methods and ways of expressing the answers. Here’s an example from their “Equitable Math Discussions Activity Template” in pamphlet 2: > [@](#): > > Diego paid $47 for 3 tickets to a concert. Andre paid $141 for 9 tickets to a concert. Did they pay at the same rate? Explain your reasoning. > > […] Anticipated student strategies: […] > > Since 9 is 3 x 3, multiply 47 by 3, 47 x 3 = 141 . Diego would have paid $141 for 9 tickets if he paid at the same rate he did for 3 tickets. Since this is what Andre paid for 9 tickets, they paid at the same rate. […] > > 47 ÷ 3 = $15.67 , 141 ÷ 9 = $15.67 > Each ticket costs $15.67, they paid the same rate. That’s not an ill-posed problem, but it’s showing two different takes on the “right answer”. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992/80 "2021-02-18T02:38:17Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Sorry, but can OP please provide a cite that confirms that this garbage is actually being officially distributed to teachers in Oregon? It’s not, so they can’t. I asked and the OP flat refused, because they wanted to discuss the pamphlet without context. The project (not this pamphlet) was linked in a blurb about a continuing education option in a district newsletter sent to math teachers. You can see the newsletter here: [Math Educator Update: February 2021](https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/ORED/bulletins/2bfbb9b?fbclid=IwAR3U8iS7fCD-g0NArQh74qlRa5IVFiTXoithZA89kMvmD0DETmzcV9DuQdg) Clearly some teacher or parent saw the newsletter, clicked a few links, read “white supremacy” and maybe a few of the poorly expressed/explained ideas discussed in this thread and sent it to the news. Fox News and the other usual suspects ran with it, whereupon the OP saw it in their Twitter feed. And here we are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismantling-racism-in-mathematics-instruction/932992.md?page=5)