# Dismissing people as crazy and not educating them or trying to inform them is a problem. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2019, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116 "2019-04-06T06:29:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/21 "2019-04-07T01:18:01Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Most people don’t really care to inform someone or tell someone they’re wrong. Most of the time they themselves are not informed enough on a topic to give these assertions with credible evidence and reasoning. For both of these reasons everyone should be attempting to argue why things like climate change or vaccines are important. Two totally different topics but they’re great example so this. People honestly dismiss climate change as a far off threat or as simply a fabrication, I’ve even heard people try to argue the climate change concerns are equivalent to religious beliefs. So, it seems to me the main issue is people don’t try to inform or argue enough. Every single one of you dopers for example should be on twitter looking for genuinely ignorant tweets or ones operating on a false premise. Let’s say you’re looking through a tweet and see people claiming they don’t vaccinate their kids. It appears most people ignore it and dismiss these people as “idiots”, but that doesn’t solve anything because they’re still idiots at the end of the day. Therefor it is your responsibility, or rather civic duty to educate and inform your fellow citizen especially in a democracy of all things. It may not make you friends but the moment you ignore someone claiming they wont vaccinate their kids, I believe you’re complicit with their behavior and beliefs. I’m just taking a single extreme example here, but in this case a child could die, or rather multiple children could die. All because you dismissed someone saying something you deemed idiotic on the internet so you just glance over it and go on about your day, or you hear someone in the bar say something stupid like this and don’t say anything because you’re timid and frail. . . . So, for instance, I could say “you are wrong in not breaking your screed into paragraphs, or I might have read it all the way through.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/22 "2019-04-07T02:53:34Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > If your reasoning is stronger than their emotional investment then they will concede their position to yours. “Reasoning” and “emotional investment” do not necessarily have the same strength metric. Yes, if somebody who’s not well-informed on a particular subject genuinely wants to formulate and hold an informed opinion about it, and you are able to discuss the subject with them in a reasonable and informative way, you may be able to help them change their mind. But many people who are emotionally invested in some idiotic notion are impervious to reason on the subject, no matter how respectfully and helpfully you attempt to discuss it. > [@Barack Obama](#): > > I have actually done this many times, recently with people who dismissed climate change. I appreciate the goodness of your intentions, but I have no way of knowing how many of your interlocutors genuinely came around to your way of thinking and how many of them just eventually pretended to agree with you in order to get you to leave them alone. > [@Barack Obama](#): > > Every single one of you dopers for example should be on twitter looking for genuinely ignorant tweets or ones operating on a false premise. Let’s say you’re looking through a tweet and see people claiming they don’t vaccinate their kids. It appears most people ignore it and dismiss these people as “idiots”, but that doesn’t solve anything because they’re still idiots at the end of the day. Therefor it is your responsibility, or rather civic duty to educate and inform your fellow citizen especially in a democracy of all things. “Educating and informing” random strangers by disagreeing with them on social media does not have a terribly impressive success rate. AFAICT it is mostly a way for us better-informed types to enjoy ourselves by showing off our superior knowledge and forensic determination, and I think that sort of thing is more appropriate in venues specifically designed for such activities, such as the SDMB. I think the best way to approach our civic duty of fighting ignorance on important social issues is not to buttonhole randos on the internet in order to contradict them, but to work on making better information more readily available to people who honestly want to know the facts. For example, if your local supermarket or other store distributes one of those free “natural” antivax quack newsletters, have a discussion with the store manager asking them to reconsider carrying this publication, as it’s bad for public health. Encourage people you know to get flu shots and to vaccinate their kids. Support local medical and civic programs in favor of good science policy. All of which is way more responsible and productive than just butting heads with anti-science fanatics on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/23 "2019-04-07T03:12:17Z")
Maybe what is at play here is the loose use of the term crazy. My father more than once has said Kim Jong-un is crazy. I asked him point blank once, and he said yes he is. Ok, then I said the rational response to a crazy person with nuclear capability is to turn North Korea into a parking lot. He then said that action was crazy. Donald Trump is not a man I admire, but he is not crazy. Michele Bachman, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, whoever, the same. People who see what you see and yet attempt to capitalize on the situation in a way you may find is unethical is still not crazy. So what they say is also not crazy. It’s foolish to dismiss them with that term, both because it is inaccurate and because then you absolve them of the need to explain themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/24 "2019-04-07T03:25:34Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Maybe what is at play here is the loose use of the term crazy. My father more than once has said Kim Jong-un is crazy. I asked him point blank once, and he said yes he is. Ok, then I said the rational response to a crazy person with nuclear capability is to turn North Korea into a parking lot. He then said that action was crazy. > > Donald Trump is not a man I admire, but he is not crazy. Michele Bachman, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, whoever, the same. > > People who see what you see and yet attempt to capitalize on the situation in a way you may find is unethical is still not crazy. So what they say is also not crazy. > > It’s foolish to dismiss them with that term, both because it is inaccurate and because then you absolve them of the need to explain themselves. It’s like how serial killers are often dismissed as crazy or deranged. Society finds it deeply disturbing that a sane and rational person could do evil like that, and hence tries to comfort itself by claiming that it isn’t the product of sane behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/25 "2019-04-07T04:01:58Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It’s like how serial killers are often dismissed as crazy or deranged. Society finds it deeply disturbing that a sane and rational person could do evil like that, and hence tries to comfort itself by claiming that it isn’t the product of sane behavior. Are you making the claim that most serial murderers are not mentally deranged? Because of those who have been captured and examined, most clearly display symptoms of one or more recognized personality or psychotic disorders including compulsive, obsessive, and antisocial behaviors. Outside of warfare, “sane and rational” people don’t go around killing people because aside from whether it is “evil” to do so or not, there are serious ramifications for doing so and getting caught. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/26 "2019-04-07T13:29:38Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I think the best way to approach our civic duty of fighting ignorance on important social issues is not to buttonhole randos on the internet in order to contradict them, but to work on making better information more readily available to people who honestly want to know the facts. > > For example, if your local supermarket or other store distributes one of those free “natural” antivax quack newsletters, have a discussion with the store manager asking them to reconsider carrying this publication, as it’s bad for public health. Encourage people you know to get flu shots and to vaccinate their kids. Support local medical and civic programs in favor of good science policy. All of which is way more responsible and productive than just butting heads with anti-science fanatics on the internet. Agreed. There _is_ one benefit to following and occasionally responding to hardcore loons online - you get exposed to memes you might otherwise never hear about. If your neighbor or relative (assuming they are otherwise sane) comes out with such a meme (or trope, if you prefer), you’ve already had practice debunking it. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/27 "2019-04-07T16:01:21Z")
I just don’t see it as being my responsibility to “educate” everyone I run across, either in person or on-line, when I think they are wrong. I think it was P. J. O’Rourke who said that America [USA] wasn’t founded so that we could all be better…it was founded so that we could be whatever the heck we wanted to be. Besides, it’s fruitless. It’s a binomial distribution and there will always be extremists in the tails, no matter what the topic or issue. It’s the middle 90% that counts. OTOH, I expect the same from them. And I’m going to draw a line in the sand when their beliefs trod on my freedoms and general welfare. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/28 "2019-04-07T20:00:59Z")
I promote “compassionate paternalism”. When it is cases of not accepting science on important matters like climate change, believing that tax cuts increase revenues or that Mexicans are all rapists, to name a few, we have to acknowledge that we will likely never, never, ever get facts and reasons through to these people. The only thing to do is gently prevent them from making public policy, and instead keep things on the rails in as non-offensive a way as possible, a way that prevents their country from collapsing in debt, their children from suffering in an apocalyptic climate nightmare, the snarlers from going all Nazi on minority groups and making this a shitty country to live in. So, help them, but focus your convincing efforts of the educational system. People attached to crazy bullshit will generally waste your effort in trying to set them straight. Be a pluralist! But only let actually rational differences make it through the gate into real public deliberation. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/29 "2019-04-07T20:04:32Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > If your reasoning is stronger than their emotional investment then they will concede their position to yours. I have actually done this many times, recently with people who dismissed climate change. I managed to convince a few people to concede their position on the effects of climate change. They agreed the effects would be devastating, however they disagree with the cause and relation of cc with humans. The evidence that climate change is happening is getting so great that deniers can’t even deny it anymore. So they have switched from “it is not happening so we don’t have to do anything” to “humans are not responsible, so we don’t have to do anything.” Not much of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/30 "2019-04-07T22:20:07Z")
Because life is not a debate club or a salon where gentlemen with brandy and cigars sit in leather chairs chuckle and say, “excellent point, old chum.” There’s nothing I like better than learning something and telling people about it. And if people say, “No, that’s not right,” I’m happy to tell them, in great detail with exhaustive source material, exactly why they’re wrong and I’m right. After a long and rich life, I have concluded this is not the best way to win friends and influence people. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/31 "2019-04-07T22:55:27Z")
For those who think there’s a role for education on social media, a project called Shots Heard Round The World is gearing up. Its stated goal is to alert pro-immunization advocates to defend against coordinated attacks by antivaxers, like the blitzes against medical practices’ Facebook pages described in [this article](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/feb/27/facebook-anti-vaxx-harassment-campaigns-doctors-fight-back). The idea is that when antivaxers descend en masse to do things like trash medical practices’ online ratings for daring to support vaccination, the project will “light the signal fires of Gondor” to rapidly get pro-immunization forces to mobilize in defense. Sounds like fun. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/32 "2019-04-08T00:37:32Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The evidence that climate change is happening is getting so great that deniers can’t even deny it anymore. So they have switched from “it is not happening so we don’t have to do anything” to “humans are not responsible, so we don’t have to do anything.” Not much of a difference. The media’s lack of explanation for things like the Green New Deal and the UN’s 12 year time frame to prevent a 2 degree increase, has contributed to peoples misconception that A) this is a partisan issue, B) Green New Deal is about killing cows and removing planes, and C) people wanting to do something about climate change are religious zealots spouting on about the world ending. If Tucker Carlson did a segment on the ramifications of not doing anything to combat cc, I guarantee you a bunch of rednecks and white evangelicals would start to give a shit and maybe be concerned about it. All Fox News would have to do is frame this in a way that the right loves. Tell them CC is going to result in refugees and immigrants. The right would be fired up and ready to rejoin the Paris agreement instantly if you told them that. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/33 "2019-04-08T12:10:48Z")
I just saw an online posting that declared “vaccines AREN’T TESTED!”. I passed along a few links demonstrating that indeed, vaccines are tested extensively before approval and monitored after they come into use. The odds that person will now say “gee, I was wrong, thanks!” are approximately zero. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/34 "2019-04-08T12:13:58Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > If your reasoning is stronger than their emotional investment then they will concede their position to yours. I have actually done this many times, recently with people who dismissed climate change. I managed to convince a few people to concede their position on the effects of climate change. They agreed the effects would be devastating, however they disagree with the cause and relation of cc with humans. You didn’t convince them of much. They are every bit as happy with humans leading us down the path of a warmer planet as they were before you spoke with them. It’s like convincing a Fundamentalist that homosexuality isn’t a choice, and they come out of it believing that homosexuals aren’t choosing their preferences, but should remain celibate since homosexual acts are an affront to God. Yay? As MrDibble pointed out, you can’t reason them out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Your CC friends didn’t reason themselves into the position, it’s a political position. An anti-liberal anti-hippie/treehugger position because they’re not going to let those ivory tower book lernin nerds tell them they have to stop doing this or start doing that. They don’t really care about climate change, and were willing to concede your point because they get to keep what they ACTUALLY care about, stigginit. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/35 "2019-04-08T14:53:47Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Or telling a homosexual person the benefits of being heterosexual. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Sorry, I don’t believe this is similar. A person can choose to use their reasoning ability, to think (to take steps to overcome a phobia, for example, lots of people do that), or they can take the easier path and stay with their existing opinions. People don’t choose to be homosexual or heterosexual. Both of these are important things to remember. I’ve talked to plenty of the really religious who think that homosexuals will become heterosexual if they just realize that’s how God made them and wants them to be. IN NO WAY DO I SUPPORTED THIS RAH-RAH IDEA. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/36 "2019-04-08T14:53:58Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > This is a serious issue, and I believe it’s the most dangerous threat we’re facing at the moment. Complicity with ignorance, especially on the internet and among family/friends. [The OP](https://xkcd.com/386/) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/37 "2019-04-08T16:03:28Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > [The OP](https://xkcd.com/386/) In the context of this thread, this is not appropriate for this forum as it seems too much like threadshitting. If you think it’s a topic not worthy of discussion, it’s not required to participate. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/38 "2019-04-08T16:30:58Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The second someone says “Yeah, but…” it’s time to walk away. > > Abortion causes homosexuality. > No, it doesn’t. Where do you get that crazy idea. > It creates a hostile womb, and makes future children more likely to be gay. > That’s not how it works. > Yeah, but, there’s more homosexuals since abortion was made legal. > > Substitute “vaccines” and “autism” and you have another idea. I’d say that a woman being forced to bear a child that she can’t afford and dreads having would have a much more hostile womb. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/39 "2019-04-08T21:14:57Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > Most people don’t really care to inform someone or tell someone they’re wrong. Most of the time they themselves are not informed enough on a topic to give these assertions with credible evidence and reasoning. For both of these reasons everyone should be attempting to argue why things like climate change or vaccines are important. Two totally different topics but they’re great example so this. People honestly dismiss climate change as a far off threat or as simply a fabrication, I’ve even heard people try to argue the climate change concerns are equivalent to religious beliefs. So, it seems to me the main issue is people don’t try to inform or argue enough. Every single one of you dopers for example should be on twitter looking for genuinely ignorant tweets or ones operating on a false premise. Let’s say you’re looking through a tweet and see people claiming they don’t vaccinate their kids. It appears most people ignore it and dismiss these people as “idiots”, but that doesn’t solve anything because they’re still idiots at the end of the day. Therefor it is your responsibility, or rather civic duty to educate and inform your fellow citizen especially in a democracy of all things. It may not make you friends but the moment you ignore someone claiming they wont vaccinate their kids, I believe you’re complicit with their behavior and beliefs. I’m just taking a single extreme example here, but in this case a child could die, or rather multiple children could die. All because you dismissed someone saying something you deemed idiotic on the internet so you just glance over it and go on about your day, or you hear someone in the bar say something stupid like this and don’t say anything because you’re timid and frail. > > This is a serious issue, and I believe it’s the most dangerous threat we’re facing at the moment. Complicity with ignorance, especially on the internet and among family/friends. Hiya Barack. I’m going to do my part to try to educate right now! There is a thing called paragraphs. You can wiki it. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116/40 "2019-04-08T22:16:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into, IME. QFT. I used to feel like it was my duty to “educate” folks that believe crazy shit… after years of bashing my head against the brick wall of willful ignorance, I just don’t have the energy to continue it. If somebody is of the type of mindset that can buy into Alex Jones or Hillary-is-a-murderer, there is nothing I will be able to do to change that. No amount of evidence seems to sway the peddlers or consumers of cure-all essential oils, reiki, or any other woo treatments. So, I just let them wallow in it, now… and keep my distance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dismissing-people-as-crazy-and-not-educating-them-or-trying-to-inform-them-is-a-problem/832116.md?page=3)