# Disney Fantasia vs Fantasia 2000 & 'Uncut Anniversary Edition' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 18, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841 "2004-10-18T15:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/1 "2004-10-18T15:33:38Z")
I’m thinking about investing in a DVD of Disney’s _Fantasia_, but I’m confused; what exactly is _Fantasia 2000_ - a remake, or an entirely different work? What is the Uncut Anniversary Edition? Help! ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/2 "2004-10-18T15:42:01Z")
**Fantasia 2000** was a new film with new animated sequences to new classical music numbers (plus a reprise of “The Sorcerer’s Apprentice” from 1940). It was in IMAX format, so it’s not as long a film as the original. [Here’s a listing of the classical pieces](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120910/soundtrack) of the 2000 version. Both films are available on DVD together in [this Anthology edition](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00004Y7S5/qid=1098114271/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-0779534-3599053?v=glance&s=dvd) (plus a 3rd disc of extras). The Uncut Anniversary Edition is of the 1940 film, supposedly with additional narration not released in commercial releases since its original theatrical run (though I don’t believe there are any additional musical numbers). ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/3 "2004-10-18T16:48:15Z")
If the 1940 edition is really uncut, have they included the little girl centaur that helps the older centaur girls get ready to meet the guy centaurs? I’ve seen a still picture of her, and it’s un-PC by today’s standards. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/4 "2004-10-18T17:12:17Z")
One big difference between the two is that the 1940 _Fantasia_ was worth seeing – over and over again, at that. _Fantasia 2000_ is not worth seeing even once. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/5 "2004-10-18T17:13:11Z")
I was wondering the same thing as **Baker**. The “little girl” centaur helping out the older one was drawn in a distinctly “Little Black Sambo” style, polishing the hooves of her blonde “mistress”. IIRC, there were other similar characters, also in the Mount Olympus segment, of an equally demeaning sort. The surgical cropping (or allout removal) of those frames was one of the reasons it took so long for Disney to release _Fantasia_ on home video. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/6 "2004-10-18T17:41:01Z")
Given the fact that Disney hasn’t even seen fit to release _The Song of the South_, I doubt the girl centaur is part of the “uncut” version (though I haven’t seen it to know what is and isn’t different from the more well-known version). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/7 "2004-10-18T17:51:25Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > If the 1940 edition is really uncut, have they included the little girl centaur that helps the older centaur girls get ready to meet the guy centaurs? I’ve seen a still picture of her, and it’s un-PC by today’s standards. No, the zebra centaurette polishing the older centaurette’s hooves is still excised. It was done a lot more smoothly than on the VHS copy I have, though. Most of the restored footage is additional comments by Deems Taylor. For example, before the _Rite of Spring_ segment he goes on for several minutes more than you’re used to about planetary and animal evolution. You also get shots of the orchestra arriving, departing for the intermission, and coming back. I also remember a spot where Taylor is interrupted by someone in the percussion department nearly knocking over the tubular bells and struggling with them for a few moments. As originally conceived, _Fantasia_ was supposed to be re-released every couple years, with one or two of the old pieces swapped out for new ones each time. With the limited box office success in 1940, though, that plan was dropped, until Roy E Disney, Walt’s nephew, picked up the torch and oversaw creating _Fantasia 2000_ DD ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/8 "2004-10-18T20:27:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > One big difference between the two is that the 1940 _Fantasia_ was worth seeing – over and over again, at that. _Fantasia 2000_ is not worth seeing even once. You could not be any more wrong. You could try, but you would not succeed. I think **Fantasia 2000** is a fantastic movie, one of the most underrated ever. I can not recommend it highly enough. I honestly think it’s better than the original. Take that for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/9 "2004-10-18T23:32:01Z")
One HUGE difference between the anniversary edition DVD and al previous releases of Fantasia I’ve seen (including the VHS version) that – so far as I know – no one has remaked on is that it restores the _original_ narration and the original title card/intermission sequence. All previous versions of Fantasia I’ve seen have a very different voice announcing each segment of the film from the one that’s in the DVD version. And the announcements in the DVD version are longer, too. The guy who did them (I fogot his name – it’ll come to me as soon as I hit “Send”) was a popular classical music announcer on the radio at the time, so he as a natural for Fantasia. I swear that every other time I saw Fantasia until I got the DVD his voice was different, and the intros a lot shorter. In addition, every other time I saw Fantasia the title card with the name occurs at the beginning. In the DVD version it occurs at the intermission. In fact, only o the DVD version is there a intermission, and some of the business with the orchestra went unseen until the DVD came out. (By the way – there was a disastrous attempt to re-dub the entire film in the mid-1980s. The re-recorded the whole score and the narration. The music never matched what was going on on-screen (which was ditracting), and it wasn’t Leopold Stokowski’s conducting, so it seemed a swindle.) > [@](#): > > If the 1940 edition is really uncut, have they included the little girl centaur that helps the older centaur girls get ready to meet the guy centaurs? I’ve seen a still picture of her, and it’s un-PC by today’s standards. As far as I know, Disney has _never_ re-released these scenes, and I’ll bet they never will. ou can see the “pickaninny” centaur in a picture in the book **Comic Book Confidential**. IIRC, she isn’t a centaur (like the other two black centaurs, who attend Bacchus), but he _does_ make you uncomfortable. I suspect she shows up in mre than one scene, too, because there are a couple of scenes in the “Pastorae” sequence where the grain o the picture becomes uncomfortably obvious, and you know theyre re=framing the shot. I’ve also suspeced that they clipped something when Bachus runs into the wine vat, because there seems to be a “bump” in the music at that point. As for **Fantasa 2000** , I agree that it’s underappreciated I love it (so do **Pepper Mill** and **MilliCal** ). The animation is excellent and creative and the choice o music wel-done. They’ve chosen the sequences to echo the original (so they start off with an abstract piece, for instance). The Hirshfeld/Rhapsody in Blue sequence in very well done. I love the Saint Saens “Carnival of the Animals Finale”/Flamino with a yo-yo piece, and the Pomp and Circumstance/Donald Duck at Noa’s Ark bit is inspired (I esecially like the laughing unicorn, dragon, and grffin who don’t get n the Ar). The final piece (“Firebird”/Mt. St. Helen’s eruption) seems as New Age/Pagan as the original’s Night on Bald Mountain" + “Ave Maria” was Christian. A Gorgeous mix o nimation in a variety of styles. And people complained about this? What do they want? Who the hell else has put out anything remotely like this? (And **Allegro Non Troppo** dont count You can keep it, you cynics. Almost every damned piece is downbeat and there’s not a tenth the creativity. And I _like_ Bruno Bozetto, damnit!) ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/10 "2004-10-19T00:15:34Z")
Put me in the camp of liking Fantasia 2000. And I’ve seen every theatrical release of the original Fantasia since the late 60’s. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disney-fantasia-vs-fantasia-2000-uncut-anniversary-edition/269841/11 "2004-10-19T01:09:01Z")
1940 vs. 2000. A breakdown: Studies in Abstraction: **Bach** vs. **Beethoven**. I’ll tip the scale towards the Toccata and Fugue because it actually is more successful in conveying abstraction in animation. The Beethoven uses imagery quite well, but it’s still “story-driven” in a sense. The Beethoven is also the most heavily excerpted in the films, using just the 1st Movement. Advantage: **1940**. Classic Disney Characters: **Dukas** vs. **Elgar**. No contest. Mickey’s adventure manages to be humorous but also quite frightening, while Donald’s ark escapades are a maudlin, unfunny snooze. Advantage: **1940**. Comedy Relief: **Ponchielli** vs. **Saint-Saëns**. These pieces are the most explicitly written for comic effect. But while the Carnival piece is a one-joke set-up (and only a so-so one at that), the Giocanda dance parodies ballet and punctures high art pretensions, manufacturing character designs that manage to be both graceful and side-splittingly funny. The flamingoes simply can’t compete. Advantage: **1940** Extended Narratives: **Beethoven** vs. **Shostakovich**. Two of the longest pieces in their respective films, the Pastoral setpiece and the H.C. Anderson adaptation both have extended stories to convey. Though there is a bit of a cop-out on the ending (echoing Disney’s _Little Mermaid_), the marrying of the piano concerto to the Steadfast Tin Soldier’s adventure is genuinely inspired, with remarkable visuals and truly memorable design elements. The Beethoven, on the other hand, is glib, cutesy, and aesthetically garish (not to mention, too long). Advantage: **2000** Stylized Conceits: **Tchaikovsky** vs. **Gershwin**. Though I love the Hirschfield look, I think it falls flat here. Part of the problem may be that the multiple story threads just aren’t very compelling, and part of the problem may be that, like Beethoven’s Pastoral, the style is cutsied up a bit (and like the Pastoral, all the visuals are fairly predictable–they take the most obvious route in conveying a Gershwinesque NYC). By contrast, the Nutcracker uses a basic motif (flowers & nature) but delights with a myriad of delicate touches. It helps that the Russian piece allows for thematic variations with the multiple dances. Advantage: **1940** Magnificent Beasts: **Stravinsky** vs. **Respighi**. There’s no question that the choice of Rite of Spring was a daring choice for audiences back in 1940, and the dinosaur work is expertly rendered. But there’s something about the whales and their ability to transcend their real world physicality that is truly marvelous. True, the baby whale business is mildly irritating, but the detailing of the whales and the ocean is remarkable, and there’s a genuine catharsis in the climax that the dinosaur march doesn’t really deliver (it doesn’t help that Bozetto’s brilliant adaptation of Ravel uses dinosaurs similarly but more creatively and emotionally–I’ll take his _Bolero_ over either of the Disney’s in their entirety). Advantage **2000**. Apocalypse and Renewal: **Mussorgsky/Schubert** vs. **Stravinsky**. A toughie. Though there’s more of a cartoony feel on the Bald Mountain, it doesn’t stop the imagery from still being quite disturbing and frightening at times. The Firebird, by contrast, is very impressive, but doesn’t have the same type of subversiveness or threat. There are also some lovely moments with Ave Maria, but the transition between the two works is a little clunky and the style verges on being a bit hyper-beatific. The Stravinsky is a bit more conventional, but may be the stylistic highpoint of its film–the animation is exceptional, drawing on Disney’s past (evocations of _Bambi_) while acknowledging the current Anime influences. Decision: **Draw** Personally, I like both films in parts, but find too many sequences difficult to sit through. DVD is, I suppose, the preferable media for home use, since it’s easy to skip the substandard parts and dwell more on those that really deliver. :