# Disneyland Measles Outbreak **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 21, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529 "2015-01-21T23:14:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/181 "2015-01-26T14:03:16Z")
The antivax movement’s preferred stereotype of itself as merely consisting of “concerned parents” falls apart under minimal scrutiny. It might be well to remember that these folks (of the sort Bob Sears was associating with at that Autism One conference) clobber their opponents when it comes to [spite](http://www.examiner.com/article/did-age-of-autism-jump-the-shark) and [hatefulness](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/12/01/the-anti-vaccine-movement-shows-just-how/). ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/182 "2015-01-26T14:19:57Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Point 3 is made wrong by its qualifier. No, _not_ “most people”. Unless you have an acute allergic reaction to the vaccine, it _absolutely_ outweighs the risk. > Wrong. The problem is not acknowledging #1; Paul fucking Offit acknowledges that. The problem is when people use it as a way of scaring parents away from vaccinating. When people stress the phenomenally unlikely risks of the vaccines over the very serious risks of the diseases they are meant to present. People like Dr. Bob, who [essentially says “nobody’s going to die of it, don’t worry about it”](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/01/21/quoth-dr-bob-sears-poor-poor-pitiful-me-you-stupid-people/). Uh, Bob? _You’re a shitty physician_. 1:2000 is not a tiny death rate. The reason people aren’t dying of measles is because almost nobody is getting it, because _most of the population is vaccinated against it_. > No, the way you’re putting your argument and the way you’re backing Bob Sears is what paints you as such. It’s about dog whistles - when you start screaming about “welfare queens” and “urban violence”, you don’t get to turn around and say, “Huh? Wut?” when people start calling you a racist. Similarly, when you come into a thread about a goddamn measles outbreak and start talking about how the vaccine has risks, and that for _some people_, those risks apparently outweigh the benefits, then what the fuck do you expect people are going to think? > > And then you say phenomenally stupid shit like this: > Because what we’re talking about is a phenomenal cost increase on using a basic tool that has some inherent risk no matter how you use it. People need to use ladders. They ought to do so safely, but the fact is that standing 10 feet above the ground on a skinny, propped-up piece of metal is inherently risky. Also, it misses one important factor: > > _The only reason this is true is because we have vaccines_. Compromise that herd immunity, make the disease freely communicable again, and those numbers skyrocket. That’s the real danger of antivaxxers. Not “their kid might get measles” but “everyone’s going to get more measles”. > > Nobody’s flinging shit at you because you’re saying “there’s a risk, let’s vaccinate anyways”. People are flinging shit at you for making blatantly stupid antivaccine arguments and throwing out dog whistles left and right. > And yet the end result is exactly the same. Funny how good intentions work, huh? Many years ago, I agreed to do some standardized test tutoring to help out a friend. The clients were students whose parents wanted them to improve their scores to get into better colleges. While this modest score-improvement goal was achieved, I found the experience somewhat mystifying and frustrating. How, I wondered, could the kids look at a question with the answer built right into it and not see it? I could understand how they would have difficulty if there were unfamiliar words in the question, and worked to expand their vocabularies, but sometimes an unfamiliar word was not the problem. Can it really be that you don’t know what the word “most” means? Good god, is this normal? No. You surely must know what it means. I hope. No, maybe I hope not? I don’t know which is worse, misunderstanding such a common word or being unable to do the simplest possible logic. Maybe you don’t mind though, or even feel the lack of these things that seem so basic, so your life is probably fine this way. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/183 "2015-01-26T14:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > In his chapter on pneumococcal infection, Sears tells the > following story. “A six-month-old unvaccinated infant > had a pneumococcal ear infection that spread to the > skull bones behind the ear. She required surgery and IV > [intravenous] antibiotics. Afterward, I asked the parents > if they regretted their decision not to vaccinate. They > said no. They were both well-educated professionals, > had done a lot of reading on this issue, and still felt > comfortable with their decision.” > > [http://www.immunize.org/concerns/offit\_moser2009.pdf](http://www.immunize.org/concerns/offit_moser2009.pdf) See normal parents would realize their precious baby had been forced to have surgery and suffer because they were fucking idiots. Normal parents would be ready to smack themselves for being such shitty people. But not in the world of Dr. Sears. In that world you’re supposed to feel good about yourself for your supposed educated decision. Most parents vaccinate. They don’t need to be talked into it because they are not stupid fucking idiots. Those that do not need to be patted on the back and lied to as Dr. Sears does. They need to be ignored, isolated from many activities so they don’t directly endanger other people and then quarantined when outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases happen. Here’s how people like that think: > [@](#): > > [http://www.modernalternativemama.com/blog/2015/01/23/enough-enough-blaming-anti-vaxxers/](http://www.modernalternativemama.com/blog/2015/01/23/enough-enough-blaming-anti-vaxxers/) > > We would not see rampant death or encephalitis (these are very rare anyway). If the death rate was really 1 in 5000 (and it’s hard to say, with the advanced medical care, if it would be that high), and everyone got measles — we could assume about 4 million cases per year — that would be 800 deaths annually. Just to compare, there are around35,000 deaths from car accidents annually, while preventable medical errors kill around 400,000 people annually. We might see a reduction in autoimmunity and other lifelong health complications as well…but that hasn’t been thoroughly studied. Let eight hundred kids a year die each year because she’s too stupid to understand vaccine science. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/184 "2015-01-26T16:22:13Z")
It isn’t as if we’re not trying to being down the rate of deaths from car accidents, either. They just came out with a new recommendation for rear facing car seats until age 4. We’re putting airbags wherever they will fit. We’ve made texting while driving illegal. We’re trying to reduce car accident deaths in many ways. What does that have to do with measles? That’s what I really don’t get. Kids die from car accidents so they don’t need to be protected from measles? What? That doesn’t make any sense. I’ve got a late notice from my cable company, so I’m not going to pay my light bill either. What?! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/185 "2015-01-26T16:36:08Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Can it really be that you don’t know what the word “most” means? Good god, is this normal? See, here’s the problem. When antivaxxers say “most” in that context, let me tell you what they don’t mean: _everyone except people allergic to the vaccine_. It’s all about the dog whistle, and with your track record in this thread, it’s phenomenally hard to give you the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/186 "2015-01-26T17:43:31Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > It isn’t as if we’re not trying to being down the rate of deaths from car accidents, either. They just came out with a new recommendation for rear facing car seats until age 4. We’re putting airbags wherever they will fit. We’ve made texting while driving illegal. We’re trying to reduce car accident deaths in many ways. What does that have to do with measles? That’s what I really don’t get. Kids die from car accidents so they don’t need to be protected from measles? What? That doesn’t make any sense. > > I’ve got a late notice from my cable company, so I’m not going to pay my light bill either. What?! I’m sure I’m not alone in my desire to have zero preventable child deaths per year. What though, is the cost of preventing each death? Not just the cost in dollars, but any and all costs of money, time, effort, etc. associated with the prevention. It’s not comfortable to think about where to set the level of “expense” of this nature that is worth spending to save a child’s life, but surely we want to save as many lives as possible per “expense unit.” Apparently in 2012 one child dies from a TV tip-over every two weeks and TV tip-overs account for 18,000 ER visits per year. Apparently these rates just keep going up. If we eliminated TVs entirely, think of the savings… But we don’t think the “cost” is worth it. We could insist that televisions only be installed by licensed professionals who would secure them properly to the wall and save a lot of lives and injuries. But this is also objectionable and not seriously considered by many people either. Where would it end, after all? Next thing you know, they’ll come for our bookcases, our fish tanks, our unbarred windows, our ladders, and our staircases. Sorry kids, some of you are going to die from televisions because you are clumsy and your caregivers are too dumb to affix their TVs properly to the wall. The life of one four-year-old I will never meet is worth exactly the same amount to me as that of any other four-year-old I will never meet. Why should I be enraged because one child dies from measles, but shrug off another TV-crushed child’s death? We should shrug off neither death, you may be thinking… But when the cost of saving one more child gets too “expensive,” like getting rid of all the TVs, we eventually must admit that we can’t save them all. That any one “preventable death” may be prevented, but it is not worth the cost of preventing them all. Is it because the TV-crushed child is the victim of their own caregiver’s stupidity, while the measles case may be the result and therefore, _fault_, of the stupidity of someone unrelated? I think a lot of non-vaxxing parents believe that if their child is the extremely rare case that suffers harm from a vaccination, that harm is _their fault_, whereas if the child suffers less-rare harm from a disease, that is _fate_. Possibly religion plays a role in this as well, as they conclude that the disease must be “God’s will.” It’s frustrating that they seem so bad at playing the odds, but their feelings about who is to blame for the consequences are different, so it isn’t simply a question of odds in their eyes. What does this have to do with the TVs? If I go to my non-vaxxing friend’s house and try to talk them into vaccinating their toddler by showing them CDC statistics and such, I should not expect to succeed. No lives saved. If however, I instead use that time to convince them to let me help them attach their TV to the wall properly, that’s more likely to succeed. Possible life saved. If while I do that, I ask if they’ve heard about the delayed vaccination schedules and get them on board with that, better still. If that makes me an idiot in some people’s eyes, so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/187 "2015-01-26T17:56:07Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Anti-vaxxers are just people who love and care about their children and are trying to do what’s best for them in light of their interpretation of the facts. They aren’t failing to vaccinate out of spite or hatefulness. Well, a guy who drinks and drives and then t-bones my car when I’ve got my baby in the back seat isn’t doing it out of spite or hatefulness either, but he is a _bad person_ who could _kill my baby_. He’s 6 months old and too young for the MMR. Somebody who doesn’t vaccinate their kid “trying to do what’s best for them” who then exposes my baby to measles is a _bad person_ who could _kill my baby_ just the same. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/188 "2015-01-26T18:02:10Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > See, here’s the problem. When antivaxxers say “most” in that context, let me tell you what they don’t mean: _everyone except people allergic to the vaccine_. It’s all about the dog whistle, and with your track record in this thread, it’s phenomenally hard to give you the benefit of the doubt. I don’t mean “everyone except people allergic to the vaccine” and neither does the CDC. See this link of their childhood vaccination contraindications: [http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/vac-admin/contraindications-vacc.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/vac-admin/contraindications-vacc.htm) I said “most” because that’s what I meant. “Most” indicates a quantity more than half but less than all. There is no built-in implication beyond that. If the quantity is 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%, the word “most” is NOT “incorrect” as you claimed. Since I have actually said what I mean, it is counterproductive for you to “translate” it into something completely different. If what I have said is TRUE, it is not somehow actually false, because you “know” what I “really” mean, which is something false. Sorry, I don’t know how to speak your special language where words have ever-shifting arbitrary meanings according to what you’ve decided I think. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/189 "2015-01-26T18:09:33Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, a guy who drinks and drives and then t-bones my car when I’ve got my baby in the back seat isn’t doing it out of spite or hatefulness either, but he is a _bad person_ who could _kill my baby_. He’s 6 months old and too young for the MMR. Somebody who doesn’t vaccinate their kid “trying to do what’s best for them” who then exposes my baby to measles is a _bad person_ who could _kill my baby_ just the same. If you lump them all together as “bad people,” I guess we can stone them to death in the town square and feel good about it. Call me an idealist, but that seems wrong somehow. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/190 "2015-01-26T18:13:59Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Possible life saved. If while I do that, I ask if they’ve heard about the delayed vaccination schedules and get them on board with that, better still. > If that makes me an idiot in some people’s eyes, so be it. You look like an idiot because you fail to admit that most people are vaccinating and all that people like Dr. Sears do is mostly make people feel good when they don’t. You do that while patting yourself on the back for your critical thinking skills. Anti-vaxers are a fringe group. They need to be treated like we treat other fringe groups: isolated whenever possible in the event of a vaccine-preventable disease outbreak and ignored on most other occasions. Oh the cost of Dr. Bob’s anti-vax idiocy? Lots of needless suffering and lots of public funds that are better spent elsewhere: [http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5708a3.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5708a3.htm) These people are idiots. You don’t reason with idiots and make other people think they have a point. You take measures to protect vulnerable non-idiots from them. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/191 "2015-01-26T18:18:46Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > If you lump them all together as “bad people,” I guess we can stone them to death in the town square and feel good about it. Call me an idealist, but that seems wrong somehow. Ignoring and isolating is not stoning. We have the right to make sure that we don’t have measles or other vaccine-preventable diseases in our community. If you deliberately compromise that right you must expect consequences. You’re not an idealist or a critical thinker. You’re just some schmuck who thinks he’s better than the rest of us when Dr. Sears panders to his vanity. You have sympathy with them because you buy into the kind of thinking that they do. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/192 "2015-01-26T19:51:03Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > You look like an idiot because you fail to admit that most people are vaccinating and all that people like Dr. Sears do is mostly make people feel good when they don’t. You do that while patting yourself on the back for your critical thinking skills. Anti-vaxers are a fringe group. They need to be treated like we treat other fringe groups: isolated whenever possible in the event of a vaccine-preventable disease outbreak and ignored on most other occasions. > > Oh the cost of Dr. Bob’s anti-vax idiocy? Lots of needless suffering and lots of public funds that are better spent elsewhere: > > [Outbreak of Measles --- San Diego, California, January--February 2008](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5708a3.htm) > > These people are idiots. You don’t reason with idiots and make other people think they have a point. You take measures to protect vulnerable non-idiots from them. I don’t “admit” that most people are vaccinating?? I didn’t realize that that was even in question. Of course most people are vaccinating. Nearly all, even, though never enough. And I’m definitely glad that they are – the more, the better, in my opinion. I disagree with how fringe groups “should” be treated and the value of making people feel bad. I’d like people to vaccinate, not to feel bad. I have no desire to isolate or ignore groups of people under this circumstance. What next, relocate them to some sort of camps for the protection of others? Vulnerable CHILDREN are people I am interested in protecting, and it seems pretty harsh to write off babies and little kids as idiots that should be isolated. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/193 "2015-01-26T19:53:30Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Ignoring and isolating is not stoning. We have the right to make sure that we don’t have measles or other vaccine-preventable diseases in our community. If you deliberately compromise that right you must expect consequences. You’re not an idealist or a critical thinker. You’re just some schmuck who thinks he’s better than the rest of us when Dr. Sears panders to his vanity. You have sympathy with them because you buy into the kind of thinking that they do. No, I have sympathy for them because they are human beings. If you don’t, that’s your business. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/194 "2015-01-26T20:12:22Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I disagree with how fringe groups “should” be treated and the value of making people feel bad. I’d like people to vaccinate, not to feel bad. I have no desire to isolate or ignore groups of people under this circumstance. What next, relocate them to some sort of camps for the protection of others? > Vulnerable CHILDREN are people I am interested in protecting, and it seems pretty harsh to write off babies and little kids as idiots that should be isolated. :rolleyes: Just like your strawman of Dr. Offit that is not whom \*\*LavenderBlue \*\*is talking about. He is referring to the \*\*adult \*\*idiots that are putting their children that can not decide for themselves into harm’s way and the children of others. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/195 "2015-01-26T20:21:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Just like your strawman of Dr. Offit that is not whom \*\*LavenderBlue \*\*is talking about. He is referring to the \*\*adult \*\*idiots that are putting their children that can not decide for themselves into harm’s way and the children of others. Oh, we isolate the parents, but let the unvaccinated kids roam free? Well, I hadn’t even considered that brilliant solution! ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/196 "2015-01-26T20:28:45Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Vulnerable CHILDREN are people I am interested in protecting, and it seems pretty harsh to write off babies and little kids as idiots that should be isolated. Isolation is how you protect them. That’s what we do for kids who cannot be vaccinated because of an underlying medical condition. I fail to see why this offends you. > [@AnaMen](#): > > No, I have sympathy for them because they are human beings. If you don’t, that’s your business. They’re idiots. Your sympathy for idiots is equally idiotic. I reserve my sympathies for people like my friend Stacy who has a son who had a heart transplant. She gets to live in fear for her son because the morons you find sympathetic want permission to spread disease that could kill her son without consequences. I reserve my sympathy for my friend Toni who lost her daughter to pertussis because Australian vaccination rates are too low. It is my business if you don’t want to vaccinate. Measles can be contagious [days](http://www.today.com/health/measles-outbreak-6-reasons-why-doctors-are-so-afraid-2D80441162contagious) before you have symptoms. Those who aren’t vaccinated are [22 to 224 times more likely to contract measles](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5708a3.htm) then those who are vaccinated. As this same source points out,[in Iowa, the public health response to one imported measles case cost approximately $150,000](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5708a3.htm). If you’re going to be deliberately stupid and spread disease, you cannot expect people to pat you on the back, let alone sit there and tell you how smart you are. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/197 "2015-01-26T20:31:32Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Oh, we isolate the parents, but let the unvaccinated kids roam free? > Well, I hadn’t even considered that brilliant solution! No, we isolate the kids and the parents. Anyone who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons as well as those who voluntarily forego vaccines. Good god take some reading comprehension lessons. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/198 "2015-01-26T20:36:14Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Isolation is how you protect them. That’s what we do for kids who cannot be vaccinated because of an underlying medical condition. I fail to see why this offends you. > > They’re idiots. Your sympathy for idiots is equally idiotic. > > I reserve my sympathies for people like my friend Stacy who has a son who had a heart transplant. She gets to live in fear for her son because the morons you find sympathetic want permission to spread disease that could kill her son without consequences. I reserve my sympathy for my friend Toni who lost her daughter to pertussis because Australian vaccination rates are too low. > > It is my business if you don’t want to vaccinate. Measles can be contagious [days](http://www.today.com/health/measles-outbreak-6-reasons-why-doctors-are-so-afraid-2D80441162contagious) before you have symptoms. Those who aren’t vaccinated are [22 to 224 times more likely to contract measles](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5708a3.htm) then those who are vaccinated. As this same source points out,[in Iowa, the public health response to one imported measles case cost approximately $150,000](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5708a3.htm). > > If you’re going to be deliberately stupid and spread disease, you cannot expect people to pat you on the back, let alone sit there and tell you how smart you are. I am completely vaccinated, but I will somehow carry on without your compliments. You can and should “save” your sympathy for those you feel are most-deserving. It would sure suck if you ran out because you wasted it on some unworthy idiot, since you have such a meager supply. I’d sure hate to live in a world that wasn’t harsh enough. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/199 "2015-01-26T20:40:12Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > No, we isolate the kids and the parents. Anyone who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons as well as those who voluntarily forego vaccines. Good god take some reading comprehension lessons. I understood you perfectly the first time, thanks. Now you want your friend Stacy’s poor heart-transplant kid put in isolation? Seems kind of harsh, but what do I know, I’m Sympathy Restriction Challenged. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529/200 "2015-01-26T20:44:15Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > I am completely vaccinated, but I will somehow carry on without your compliments. > > You can and should “save” your sympathy for those you feel are most-deserving. It would sure suck if you ran out because you wasted it on some unworthy idiot, since you have such a meager supply. > I’d sure hate to live in a world that wasn’t harsh enough. :rolleyes: Oh fuck off already. [Global Eradication](http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/204/suppl_1/S98.full) of measles is thisclose if the yahoos didn’t stop thinking they are smarter than the rest of us sheeple. One of my dear friends died all too early last September from a nasty case of breast cancer. At one point Moira had to worry about pertussis on top of everything else in her life because of an outbreak of pertussis in our community. Shortly before I gave birth some idiots from France showed up at my [local Jewish restaurant](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04/21/measles-warning-for-eppes-essen-restaurant-in-livingston/) (a place I often eat) with measles in tow. I would have killed those fuckers if my newborn had been accidentally exposed to the disease because of their deliberate stupidity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disneyland-measles-outbreak/710529.md?page=11)