Disneyland Measles Outbreak

[WhyNot]

@AnaMen

I will try.
As is typical, my own child’s well-being and safety is more important to me than than the well-being of all other children.
Next in the hierarchy are other children that I know and care about.
Third are children that are complete strangers.

Of course I get the most control over the safety of my own child. I can bolt my TV to the wall properly and get vaccinations. If I’m extremely concerned, I can even get titers done for some diseases to confirm immunity and get extra boosters accordingly.
I have little say in the safety of the next tier, but I can attempt to exert some influence or help bolt TVs to the wall.

The third tier children, children that are strangers… Well, I’d rather none die, of course, but if I happen to see on the news or whatever that a tot has died, what’s it to me if he died from measles because he was infected by an unvaccinated child even though he was vaccinated himself or if he was smashed by an unsecured TV? As far as I’m concerned, both deaths should have been preventable, but actually the TV smashing death was actually more preventable, since people don’t put up such a fuss about how attaching the TV to the wall might harm their child, so we ought to be able to at least cut down on THOSE deaths, because who is even fighting against it? Instead, they apparently increase drastically every year.
In both cases, a random child has died because of an adult’s negligence. Neither child was property, but a person unto themselves. I don’t care more about protecting the vaccinated child than unvaccinated children.

What you seem to be missing in my point is that you, AnaMen, should be pissed off at antivaxxers, and -let’s call them soft vaxxers, doctors like Dr.Sears who take anything less than the AAP and CDC position on immunizations- because they put your child at risk. Not my child, not strange unknown children. Your child. The fully vaccinated one. S/he is still at risk for getting the measles because there are more unvaccinated kids out there right now than herd immunity allows for. Your vaccinated child has a lower risk of getting measles than an unvaccinated child, but it’s still not zero. Herd immunity doesn’t just protect the unvaccinated, it protects the vaccinated, too.

Don’t be worried about the effects of antivaxxers’ actions on unknown kids. That’s not your concern, you’re not a doctor or nurse, I get that. Worry about the damage they could do to YOUR kid.

[AnaMen]

@LavenderBlue

Do you not get that your proposed methods (the full of lies Dr. Sears’s schedule and advertising) are both ineffective and likely to do nothing more than increase the number of anti-vaxers?

I have not proposed that anyone should prefer the delayed schedule, only that it may sway some anti-vaxxers to get vaccinations that otherwise would not.
Whether it is increasing or decreasing the total vaccination rate is something that we would need to actually do a study about to get any kind of real answer. We can speculate and you can give anti-vaxxer style anecdotal evidence, but we simply don’t know whether more parents are dialing back or more are dialing forward as a result of Sears’ influence.

When a parent is unsure whether or not to vaccinate, they may seek out a book or two. Sears’ book is very popular because of that sector of the market. Here perhaps is a reason for some of your fury: your product is in direct competition with his product. In a general sense, that is. Your product did not seem to be present in my local bookstore, while his was, sorry. You complain about his motive being to sell books and exert influence. Mightn’t someone make the same accusation to any author of a book in that section?

Anyway, the parent seeking information buys a book or two, reads as best they can, decides, and acts. The book exists and is popular because this market exists. He gets a big share of this small, but non-trivial market. I say small, because of course most parents do vaccinate without much question. Their doctors say to do it and they trust them, they themselves were vaccinated as children and are fine, and it is in some sense the path of least resistance. Unless there is some rash of serious side effects from vaccination error, insurance/Medicaid stops covering them, or doctors quit recommending vaccinations, this is not likely to change.
Dr. Sears did not create this market. He responded to it by doing some research and writing a book (sound familiar?). Is his book perfect? Of course not. Is it a complete crap/woo/anti-vax screed? Nope. I don’t really know what his intentions were in writing it, but the idea that he is deliberately trying to talk people out of vaccinating doesn’t hold up. He’s got kids himself and clearly does understand herd immunity at least to the degree of recognizing that anti-vaxxers running their mouths and influencing others not to vaccinate jeopardizes the unvaccinated child. Why would he look to decrease vaccination rates, unless he is so evil he doesn’t even mind risking his own kids as long as he gets to harm others?
Regardless of his intentions, which heck, even he may not know, the book either does or does not sway the reader’s actions one way or another (presuming a reader with a child to vax or not). The people set to vax are probably not going to read the book. They’re already going to vax, so they’ll just go ahead and do it for the most part. The likely readers are leaning toward not vaccinating or have kind of already made up their minds against it but are going through the motions of evaluating the pros and cons. I say this because even though vaccinating is an action and does require some small effort, I think it’s fair to call it the path of least resistance, so the reader already is probably someone “resisting” to some degree.
So if they read the book and decide not to vaccinate, the book has not worsened the outcome. If the book causes them to decide TO vaccinate, the book has improved the outcome. If they were already going to vaccinate, read the book, and change their minds, the outcome in this case is negative… But I don’t think people who were going to vaccinate would be as likely to read the book as the opposite, plus there is so much talk of the anti-vaxxer “dog-whistles” in the book, which obviously the vaxxer would not “hear” anyway, so they are likely to emerge from reading the book with their vaxxing intentions intact. It doesn’t have magical hypnotic powers and is perfectly safe to read, don’t worry.
I don’t think this is a far-fetched hypothesis, but without study of who is influenced by the book and how, it is, of course, just a hypothesis.

[Jackmannii]

We must respect parental choice.

“The decision to cause a full-blown, multi-state pandemic of a virus that was effectively eliminated from the national population generations ago is my choice alone, and regardless of your personal convictions, that right should never be taken away from a child’s parent. Never.”

[WhyNot]

@AnaMen

I have not proposed that anyone should prefer the delayed schedule, only that it may sway some anti-vaxxers to get vaccinations that otherwise would not.
Whether it is increasing or decreasing the total vaccination rate is something that we would need to actually do a study about to get any kind of real answer. We can speculate and you can give anti-vaxxer style anecdotal evidence, but we simply don’t know whether more parents are dialing back or more are dialing forward as a result of Sears’ influence.

When a parent is unsure whether or not to vaccinate, they may seek out a book or two. Sears’ book is very popular because of that sector of the market. Here perhaps is a reason for some of your fury: your product is in direct competition with his product. In a general sense, that is. Your product did not seem to be present in my local bookstore, while his was, sorry. You complain about his motive being to sell books and exert influence. Mightn’t someone make the same accusation to any author of a book in that section?

Anyway, the parent seeking information buys a book or two, reads as best they can, decides, and acts. The book exists and is popular because this market exists. He gets a big share of this small, but non-trivial market. I say small, because of course most parents do vaccinate without much question. Their doctors say to do it and they trust them, they themselves were vaccinated as children and are fine, and it is in some sense the path of least resistance. Unless there is some rash of serious side effects from vaccination error, insurance/Medicaid stops covering them, or doctors quit recommending vaccinations, this is not likely to change.
Dr. Sears did not create this market. He responded to it by doing some research and writing a book (sound familiar?). Is his book perfect? Of course not. Is it a complete crap/woo/anti-vax screed? Nope. I don’t really know what his intentions were in writing it, but the idea that he is deliberately trying to talk people out of vaccinating doesn’t hold up. He’s got kids himself and clearly does understand herd immunity at least to the degree of recognizing that anti-vaxxers running their mouths and influencing others not to vaccinate jeopardizes the unvaccinated child. Why would he look to decrease vaccination rates, unless he is so evil he doesn’t even mind risking his own kids as long as he gets to harm others?
Regardless of his intentions, which heck, even he may not know, the book either does or does not sway the reader’s actions one way or another (presuming a reader with a child to vax or not). The people set to vax are probably not going to read the book. They’re already going to vax, so they’ll just go ahead and do it for the most part. The likely readers are leaning toward not vaccinating or have kind of already made up their minds against it but are going through the motions of evaluating the pros and cons. I say this because even though vaccinating is an action and does require some small effort, I think it’s fair to call it the path of least resistance, so the reader already is probably someone “resisting” to some degree.
So if they read the book and decide not to vaccinate, the book has not worsened the outcome. If the book causes them to decide TO vaccinate, the book has improved the outcome. If they were already going to vaccinate, read the book, and change their minds, the outcome in this case is negative… But I don’t think people who were going to vaccinate would be as likely to read the book as the opposite, plus there is so much talk of the anti-vaxxer “dog-whistles” in the book, which obviously the vaxxer would not “hear” anyway, so they are likely to emerge from reading the book with their vaxxing intentions intact. It doesn’t have magical hypnotic powers and is perfectly safe to read, don’t worry.
I don’t think this is a far-fetched hypothesis, but without study of who is influenced by the book and how, it is, of course, just a hypothesis.

I think you underestimate, perhaps not Dr Sears, but the antivaxxer zeal for proselytizing. In that sense and that sense alone, I like Dr Sears’, “shut up about it” advice. Because in a day and age when antivaxxers are hosting websites with names like “National Vaccine Information Center,” simply having them shut the fuck up would be an improvement.

My guess, having been there, done that, is that his book is being bought by antivaxxers and given to people on the fence to bring them to the dark side.

I did the same exact thing 15 years ago with Aviva Romm’s book. It was the best information I had at the time, given to me by people I trusted, and I gave it to others in turn. I learned better.

[AnaMen]

@WhyNot

What you seem to be missing in my point is that you, AnaMen, should be pissed off at antivaxxers, and -let’s call them soft vaxxers, doctors like Dr.Sears who take anything less than the AAP and CDC position on immunizations- because they put your child at risk. Not my child, not strange unknown children. Your child. The fully vaccinated one. S/he is still at risk for getting the measles because there are more unvaccinated kids out there right now than herd immunity allows for. Your vaccinated child has a lower risk of getting measles than an unvaccinated child, but it’s still not zero. Herd immunity doesn’t just protect the unvaccinated, it protects the vaccinated, too.

Don’t be worried about the effects of antivaxxers’ actions on unknown kids. That’s not your concern, you’re not a doctor or nurse, I get that. Worry about the damage they could do to YOUR kid.

Currently my child is a fully-vaccinated adult, so could get measles yes, but so could I. The thought of either of us getting measles is unpleasant, of course, but not something I worry about or am angered by.
When said child was a vaccinated infant, toddler, pre-schooler, etc., the thought of others failing to vaccinate did not worry or anger me. The odds of infection are small, but even aside from that, nobody promised us a measles-free life, a life free from suffering or risk or negative consequences of others’ actions. I’m not angry when someone “gives” me a cold. If I found out they’d purposely licked my spoon or something to deliberately infect me, then I’d be pretty pissed, but barring such acts of biological terrorism, it seems absurd to be angry about it.

If I travel, vaccinated against it, to a country where Yellow Fever is a risk, for my job perhaps, should I be angry that many people there are not vaccinated against it so I might get it?

Maybe if I dwelled on all the ways I could be collateral damage of someone else’s personal choice I could discard my preference for freedom over safety. Maybe it would start to sound reasonable for me to make the choices for everyone, to quarantine children whose parents won’t and deny them their right to an education, to isolate the unvaccinated in camps, to want people who “choose to be dumb” to be punished, ignored, given no quarter, etc. Maybe then I could forget that nobody “chooses to be dumb” – that we live in a world with some people that are not as smart as others and none of us were offered a choice.

The imposition of forced vaccination concerns me. The unvaccinated kids at risk concern me too. If enough people are convinced to vaccinate voluntarily, then hopefully the former will not happen, because as much as I’d like to live in a measles-free world, if the cost is forced vaccination or forced quarantine of the vaccinated, stop and think what that would REALLY look like when someone strongly resists. Armed soldiers standing guard over the unvaccinated is not something I want to see in America. I hear those Japanese interment camps were not such a great place to grow up.

[AnaMen]

@WhyNot

I think you underestimate, perhaps not Dr Sears, but the antivaxxer zeal for proselytizing. In that sense and that sense alone, I like Dr Sears’, “shut up about it” advice. Because in a day and age when antivaxxers are hosting websites with names like “National Vaccine Information Center,” simply having them shut the fuck up would be an improvement.

My guess, having been there, done that, is that his book is being bought by antivaxxers and given to people on the fence to bring them to the dark side.

I did the same exact thing 15 years ago with Aviva Romm’s book. It was the best information I had at the time, given to me by people I trusted, and I gave it to others in turn. I learned better.

I’m sure that some anti-vaxxers could be using the book as such a tool, and yes, a book can be a dangerous thing, but I just don’t see that as huge cause for concern. To read this particular book and come away with your mind turned against vaccination is theoretically possible I guess, but it truly does describe the diseases very negatively, and the vaccines as almost entirely safe. You’d really have to be reading between the lines to decide the takeaway was that Dr. Sears says don’t vaccinate, and if you were inclined to do that it would be because you were purposely looking for that interpretation, in which case you are already an anti-vaxxer, so no extra harm done.

I’m not familiar with Aviva Romm, is that an anti-vax author?

[AnaMen]

@Jackmannii

We must respect parental choice.

“The decision to cause a full-blown, multi-state pandemic of a virus that was effectively eliminated from the national population generations ago is my choice alone, and regardless of your personal convictions, that right should never be taken away from a child’s parent. Never.”

See, I like this very much, because it uses humor to try to get people to make the right choice and may actually influence someone to look at themselves and decide to vaccinate instead of being the butt of the joke.

[AnaMen]

Too late to correct, but my post #225 has a typo… Third sentence from the end should read “forced quarantine of the unvaccinated,” not of the vaccinated.

[LavenderBlue]

@AnaMen

I have not proposed that anyone should prefer the delayed schedule, only that it may sway some anti-vaxxers to get vaccinations that otherwise would not.
Whether it is increasing or decreasing the total vaccination rate is something that we would need to actually do a study about to get any kind of real answer. We can speculate and you can give anti-vaxxer style anecdotal evidence, but we simply don’t know whether more parents are dialing back or more are dialing forward as a result of Sears’ influence.

When a parent is unsure whether or not to vaccinate, they may seek out a book or two. Sears’ book is very popular because of that sector of the market. Here perhaps is a reason for some of your fury: your product is in direct competition with his product. In a general sense, that is. Your product did not seem to be present in my local bookstore, while his was, sorry. You complain about his motive being to sell books and exert influence. Mightn’t someone make the same accusation to any author of a book in that section?

Anyway, the parent seeking information buys a book or two, reads as best they can, decides, and acts. The book exists and is popular because this market exists. He gets a big share of this small, but non-trivial market. I say small, because of course most parents do vaccinate without much question. Their doctors say to do it and they trust them, they themselves were vaccinated as children and are fine, and it is in some sense the path of least resistance. Unless there is some rash of serious side effects from vaccination error, insurance/Medicaid stops covering them, or doctors quit recommending vaccinations, this is not likely to change.
Dr. Sears did not create this market. He responded to it by doing some research and writing a book (sound familiar?). Is his book perfect? Of course not. Is it a complete crap/woo/anti-vax screed? Nope. I don’t really know what his intentions were in writing it, but the idea that he is deliberately trying to talk people out of vaccinating doesn’t hold up. He’s got kids himself and clearly does understand herd immunity at least to the degree of recognizing that anti-vaxxers running their mouths and influencing others not to vaccinate jeopardizes the unvaccinated child. Why would he look to decrease vaccination rates, unless he is so evil he doesn’t even mind risking his own kids as long as he gets to harm others?
Regardless of his intentions, which heck, even he may not know, the book either does or does not sway the reader’s actions one way or another (presuming a reader with a child to vax or not). The people set to vax are probably not going to read the book. They’re already going to vax, so they’ll just go ahead and do it for the most part. The likely readers are leaning toward not vaccinating or have kind of already made up their minds against it but are going through the motions of evaluating the pros and cons. I say this because even though vaccinating is an action and does require some small effort, I think it’s fair to call it the path of least resistance, so the reader already is probably someone “resisting” to some degree.
So if they read the book and decide not to vaccinate, the book has not worsened the outcome. If the book causes them to decide TO vaccinate, the book has improved the outcome. If they were already going to vaccinate, read the book, and change their minds, the outcome in this case is negative… But I don’t think people who were going to vaccinate would be as likely to read the book as the opposite, plus there is so much talk of the anti-vaxxer “dog-whistles” in the book, which obviously the vaxxer would not “hear” anyway, so they are likely to emerge from reading the book with their vaxxing intentions intact. It doesn’t have magical hypnotic powers and is perfectly safe to read, don’t worry.
I don’t think this is a far-fetched hypothesis, but without study of who is influenced by the book and how, it is, of course, just a hypothesis.

Bullshit. I don’t like his book because it is a bad book, not because it happens to complete with a book I co-wrote. I don’t like the book because it is full of lies, because it tells stupid people they are smart, because it can directly endanger babies and small children, because it sets up a schedule pretends to be full of science but is no such thing, because Dr. Sears wants to present himself and his followers as intelligent and thoughtful people when they’re nothing of the sort. You act as if he’s doing all sorts of good by perhaps a handful of people to vaccinate when the honest reaction of most people who read his shit is probably the opposite. Who would vaccinate when told that vaccines contain toxins, that they may cause autism, that the risks of vaccination are as great as the risks of non-vaccination?

I don’t like the book because it is the mouthpiece for a man who stands with Wakefield, pats morons on the back when their baby gets surgery instead of a vaccine and coddles parents who feel free to infect their own kids and others and then hand the rest of us the bill for their dumbass behavior. He’s going after a tiny minority of less than ten percent of the population skips a vaccine. They don’t want to vaccinate and they’re looking for cover. Sears provides them with cover. He lets them do their “research.” He tells them they’re special little snowflakes and the rest of us dupes for big pharma.

Your defense of him is kind of mind boggling. But I suppose you are his target audience – smugly convinced of your own brainpower despite massive evidence to the contrary – so of course you like it.

[Fenris]

@AnaMen

If I travel, vaccinated against it, to a country where Yellow Fever is a risk, for my job perhaps, should I be angry that many people there are not vaccinated against it so I might get it?

Maybe if I dwelled on all the ways I could be collateral damage of someone else’s personal choice I could discard my preference for freedom over safety. Maybe it would start to sound reasonable for me to make the choices for everyone, to quarantine children whose parents won’t and deny them their right to an education, to isolate the unvaccinated in camps

…are you retarded? I mean, literally, like mentally handicapped?

[Broomstick]

@AnaMen

The imposition of forced vaccination concerns me. The unvaccinated kids at risk concern me too. If enough people are convinced to vaccinate voluntarily, then hopefully the former will not happen, because as much as I’d like to live in a measles-free world, if the cost is forced vaccination or forced quarantine of the [un]vaccinated, stop and think what that would REALLY look like when someone strongly resists. Armed soldiers standing guard over the unvaccinated is not something I want to see in America. I hear those Japanese interment camps were not such a great place to grow up.

What in the world makes you think there would be camps for the unvaccinated?

If we’re going to move to that extreme (which I doubt, but let’s go with the hypothetical) there is zero need to “intern” anyone. You simply hold the unvaccinated long enough to line them up and vaccinate them. Monitor them briefly so if there are any bad reactions they can be treated. End of problem.

The only time I’ve heard of this being done was in the context of smallpox, mostly in India. Some of the last hold outs in some parts of the world were, indeed, vaccinated under force which consisted of the military or other authorities marching to where these people were located and not letting them leave until everyone got their jab. Then everyone went home. Typically, it was done and over in a day. No one was killed or held long term.

Now, yes, I too have issues regarding the ethics of forcibly vaccinating people. I’m a big proponent of individual rights. However, as a general rule your freedom ends where it harms other people. Failure to participate in the eradication of a disease would seem to qualify as a social “sin” to me and given the risk (a low chance of a bad reaction, most of which are minor in the larger scheme of things) and the potential reward (eradicating a disease from the world forever) I could argue that pressuring the non-vaccinated to vaccinate can be justified.

I would be in favor of denying public school, university attendance, international travel, and serving in the military to those unwilling to vaccinate. People who work in healthcare should be required to vaccinate as well. Of course if someone has a medical reason not to be vaccinated they could get a pass on the above (well, maybe not the military - I could see that as a complete disqualification) but that’s a very small slice of the population. Basically, everyone who CAN be safely vaccinated SHOULD BE. If you don’t want to play by the rules of civilization go live out in the wilderness where you’re isolated and are unlikely to either infect or be infected.

[AnaMen]

@LavenderBlue

Bullshit. I don’t like his book because it is a bad book,

Which you have not read…

not because it happens to complete with a book I co-wrote.

I didn’t say that was why; you’re the one that indicated his motive was to make sales. You flog your book often, so that could as easily be your motive.

I don’t like the book because it is full of lies,

You have it on high authority!

because it tells stupid people they are smart,

Oh no, think of the catastrophic consequences if they aren’t put down at every opportunity!

because it can directly endanger babies and small children,

It’s out in paperback, so unlikely, but can be secured to the wall for even greater safety.

because it sets up a schedule pretends to be full of science but is no such thing,

But mah copy sez now with 80% more science right on the cover, by golly!

because Dr. Sears wants to present himself and his followers as intelligent and thoughtful people when they’re nothing of the sort.

Yeah, no one would go to Georgetown unless they had no choice, everyone knows THAT’S the med school for dummies! He should at least be honest and write “I’m a big dummy and so are you if you read this” on his book cover.

You act as if he’s doing all sorts of good by perhaps a handful of people to vaccinate when the honest reaction of most people who read his shit is probably the opposite.

Yeah, probably everyone who reads this wizard’s book is sucked into his spell because he’s so dumb and so are they and it’s not faaaaiiir that you have to live in a world of dummies who listen to other dummies! Not fair one bit!

Who would vaccinate when told that vaccines contain toxins,

Me, you… Most people…

that they may cause autism, that the risks of vaccination are as great as the risks of non-vaccination?

Cite from book please? Those parts must have fallen out of the copy I saw.

I don’t like the book because it is the mouthpiece for a man who stands with Wakefield,

Literally true, I saw the pic!

pats morons on the back when their baby gets surgery instead of a vaccine and coddles parents who feel free to infect their own kids and others and then hand the rest of us the bill for their dumbass behavior. He’s going after a tiny minority of less than ten percent of the population skips a vaccine. They don’t want to vaccinate and they’re looking for cover. Sears provides them with cover. He lets them do their “research.” He tells them they’re special little snowflakes and the rest of us dupes for big pharma.

Your defense of him is kind of mind boggling. But I suppose you are his target audience – smugly convinced of your own brainpower despite massive evidence to the contrary – so of course you like it.

I don’t say this often, but… LOL!

[LavenderBlue]

@AnaMen

Which you have not read…

I didn’t say that was why; you’re the one that indicated his motive was to make sales. You flog your book often, so that could as easily be your motive.

You have it on high authority!

Oh no, think of the catastrophic consequences if they aren’t put down at every opportunity!

It’s out in paperback, so unlikely, but can be secured to the wall for even greater safety.

But mah copy sez now with 80% more science right on the cover, by golly!

Yeah, no one would go to Georgetown unless they had no choice, everyone knows THAT’S the med school for dummies! He should at least be honest and write “I’m a big dummy and so are you if you read this” on his book cover.

Yeah, probably everyone who reads this wizard’s book is sucked into his spell because he’s so dumb and so are they and it’s not faaaaiiir that you have to live in a world of dummies who listen to other dummies! Not fair one bit!

Me, you… Most people…

Cite from book please? Those parts must have fallen out of the copy I saw.
Literally true, I saw the pic!

I don’t say this often, but… LOL!

Congratulations, you sound just as stupid as many of his Facebook supporters.

[LavenderBlue]

@AnaMen

You have it on high authority!

When I post this article in Pediatrics which contains a serious take down of the bullshit promoted by Dr. Sears, bullshit that directly endangers the lives of innocent kids, causes outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases that are extremely expensive to clean up, empowers stupid people to pretend they’re smart and all you can write is return is such bullshit of your own . . .

[Broomstick]

@AnaMen

You have it on high authority!

Not everyone posting on a message board is an uninformed idiot, there are actually some people with real expertise out here.

What are YOUR credentials to speak on this matter? Any articles in peer-reviewed journals, book credits, anything…?

[LavenderBlue]

Kolga and I are just ordinary people. According to anti-vaxers that should be enough. I’m just proud I had the guts to speak out. It’s not easy for me. I want to do more but I can only manage to do so every so often because it is that hard. I’ve been called all kinds of terrible names. My daughters have been mocked. Kolga was even threatened at work. My friends Dorit Reiss, Karen Ernst, Melody Butler, Tara Haelle and dozens of others of allies – they’ve all been insulted and mocked and stood up anyway. Dr. Offit can’t tour because he gets too many death threats.

At some point you have to speak out. You can either sit there silently and seethe or you can speak out and hopefully empower others to do the same. All too often, IMO, we spend time listening to anti-vax parents, patting them on the back and trying to talk them into vaccinating. I think we do too little to tell the vast majority that they are doing a great job, that they made the right choice and they are fabulous people for doing so.

[AnaMen]

@Broomstick

Not everyone posting on a message board is an uninformed idiot, there are actually some people with real expertise out here.

What are YOUR credentials to speak on this matter? Any articles in peer-reviewed journals, book credits, anything…?

On the matter of what a particular book says?
Well, I’ve read it. I don’t claim to be evaluating any science. I’m just stating what a book that apparently no one else here has opened says.

[AnaMen]

@LavenderBlue

When I post this article in Pediatrics which contains a serious take down of the bullshit promoted by Dr. Sears, bullshit that directly endangers the lives of innocent kids, causes outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases that are extremely expensive to clean up, empowers stupid people to pretend they’re smart and all you can write is return is such bullshit of your own . . .

That’s what I’m saying: you are citing one source and taking its word for what another source says. I am looking to that source directly and in some very important ways, it does not match up.

[AnaMen]

@LavenderBlue

…
All too often, IMO, we spend time listening to anti-vax parents, patting them on the back and trying to talk them into vaccinating. I think we do too little to tell the vast majority that they are doing a great job, that they made the right choice and they are fabulous people for doing so.

Aw, that includes me! I’m fabulous!
Thank you!

[LavenderBlue]

@AnaMen

That’s what I’m saying: you are citing one source and taking its word for what another source says. I am looking to that source directly and in some very important ways, it does not match up.

That’s because you are smugly obfuscating what Sears says. You’re a jerk like him.

Here he is again pandering to morons:

Amid measles outbreak, some parents rethink shunning vaccines – Orange County Register

On his Facebook page, Sears posted recently that more pediatricians in his area have begun discriminating against parents who don’t vaccinate.

“The answer won’t be to make everyone vaccinate; neither should the answer be to allow diseases to run rampant and kill people left and right,” he posted. “The answer needs to be somewhere in the middle, and it needs to include love, understanding, and calm-headed people who will actually stop and listen to each other.”

It is not “discrimination” to refuse to be around others who put people directly at risk from extremely contagious diseases. There is no “somewhere in the middle.” Either you can, like just about all people, get vaccinated without problems or you cannot because of medical reasons. If you can’t because the vaccines don’t work or you have a compromised immune system, then you need to take appropriate precautions. If you deliberately refuse to take precautions then we don’t need to listen or be loving or kind to you. We need to isolate you and your kids so you don’t harm other people.

He’s an asshole who tells morons what they want to hear and directly endangers lives in the process. He and you should be ashamed of yourselves.