# Disobeying a direct order in combat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236 "2011-07-16T12:38:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![IMfez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f07891/32.png) [@IMfez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IMfez)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/1 "2011-07-16T12:38:07Z")
In the US military, what would happen to a soldier that refused a direct order from an authority? Sergeant: Charge that bunker position! Soldier: No! (throws down gun & curls into a ball) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/2 "2011-07-16T13:50:33Z")
Technically refusing a direct order in combat is just about the most serious crime on the books and it is the equivalent of a capital crime under the military code of justice, if convicted you can be sentenced to death. In real life? That may have been the result in the Civil War or something but in the year 2011 the person would probably end up being evaluated for psychiatric problems and eventually discharged. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/3 "2011-07-16T13:53:21Z")
The relevant statute: > [@](#): > > **899. Article 99. MISBEHAVIOR BEFORE THE ENEMY** > > Any person subject to this chapter who before or in the presence of the enemy–(1) runs away; > (2) shamefully abandons, surrenders, or delivers up any command, unit, place, or military property which it is his duty to defend; > (3) through disobedience, neglect, or intentional misconduct endangers the safety of any such command, unit, place, or military property; > (4) casts away his arms or ammunition; > (5) is guilty of cowardly conduct; > (6) quits his place of duty to plunder or pillage; > (7) causes false alarms in any command, unit, or place under control of the armed forces; > (8) willfully fails to do his utmost to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy any enemy troops, combatants, vessels, aircraft, or any other thing, which it is his duty so to encounter, engage, capture, or destroy; or > (9) does not afford all practicable relief and assistance to any troops, combatants, vessels, or aircraft of the armed forces belonging to the United States or their allies when engaged in battle; > shall be punished by death or such punishment as a court- martial may direct. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/4 "2011-07-16T13:57:38Z")
By the letter of the ```auto , said soldier should be arrested and sent to court martial. In a practical sense, wouldn't the sergeant just shoot him on the spot or have I just seen too many old war movies? ``` ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/5 "2011-07-16T14:01:54Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > By the letter of the > > ```auto > > , said soldier should be arrested and sent to court martial. > > In a practical sense, wouldn't the sergeant just shoot him on the spot or have I just seen too many old war movies? > > ``` Seen too many war movies. He would be placed under arrest after the engagement was over. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/6 "2011-07-16T14:05:50Z")
Too many old war movies. He (or she) would be sent back to higher headquarters on the next truck for whatever processing and decision that will be made. Front line, platoon level groups don’t mess with that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/7 "2011-07-16T14:12:11Z")
I figured. I’d bet it’s tempting, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/8 "2011-07-16T14:17:45Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I figured. I’d bet it’s tempting, though. It worked for the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/9 "2011-07-16T14:35:48Z")
Just the fast note that it must be a legal order. I think the OP presupposes this, but there do exist rare instances – My Lai comes quickly to mind – when a soldier receives an illegal order from a higher-ranking figure. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/10 "2011-07-16T14:44:28Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Just the fast note that it must be a legal order. I think the OP presupposes this, but there do exist rare instances – My Lai comes quickly to mind – when a soldier receives an illegal order from a higher-ranking figure. Right, and you can disobey an illegal order but the situation in the OP is one in which the soldier is displaying misbehavior before the enemy (curling up into a ball), so even if the order was illegal the soldier would still have been displaying misbehavior before the enemy due to: > [@](#): > > (5) is guilty of cowardly conduct; ---
**Author:** ![BowlOfDucks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@BowlOfDucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BowlOfDucks)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/11 "2011-07-16T14:52:25Z")
Sometimes disobeying an order is the right thing to do. [Modern example here.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1329822/James-Blunt-stopped-World-War-3-refusing-destroy-Russian-forces.html) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/12 "2011-07-16T16:31:38Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Just the fast note that it must be a legal order. I think the OP presupposes this, but there do exist rare instances – My Lai comes quickly to mind – when a soldier receives an illegal order from a higher-ranking figure. Either way, you’ll still face a court martial which will be where the legality of the order is determined. So for your average private, it’s a real interesting chance to take if they think an order is illegal- you get charged with cowardice, insubordination, etc… and then if the order is determined to have been illegal, then you get acquitted. Otherwise, you go to Leavenworth for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/13 "2011-07-16T17:39:45Z")
Going back a bit, but there are recorded cases of British soldiers (one I believe an officer ) being summarily shot by the neighbouring unit as they tried to withdraw against orders, at Dunkirk. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/14 "2011-07-16T18:09:57Z")
In addition to [Article 99 (Misbehavior before the enemy)](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000899----000-.html), which would apply to the “throwing down gun and curling into a ball” part, the part where the guy replies to a (lawful) order by saying “No!” could lead to a charge under [Article 92 (Failure to obey order or regulation)](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000892----000-.html), although it doesn’t carry the death penalty: > [@](#): > > Any person subject to this chapter who— > (1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation; > (2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or > (3) is derelict in the performance of his duties; > shall be punished as a court-martial may direct. The O.P. specified the order was given by a sergeant; if the order was given by an officer, there would be [Article 90 (Assaulting or willfully disobeying superior commissioned officer)](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec_10_00000890----000-.html), which in time of war may carry the death penalty: > [@](#): > > § 890. Art. 90. Assaulting or willfully disobeying superior commissioned officer > > Any person subject to this chapter who— > (1) strikes his superior commissioned officer or draws or lifts up any weapon or offers any violence against him while he is in the execution of his office; or > (2) willfully disobeys a lawful command of his superior commissioned officer; > shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, and if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct. Of course they can only put the guy to death the one time. (I am not a laywer, military or any other kind; I am not your lawyer; I don’t play a lawyer on TV–just on the Internet!.) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/15 "2011-07-16T18:33:21Z")
Whatever happened to drumhead courts-martial? [Dig on my plural there. :)] ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/16 "2011-07-16T18:59:42Z")
I recall reading an article about the last person to be executed for cowardice (or was it deserrtion?) in the US army. “The United States Army carried out 141 executions over a three year period from 1942 to 1945, and a further six executions were conducted during the postwar period, for a known total of 147. … With the exception of Eddie Slovik, who was shot for desertion, all of these soldiers were executed for murder and/or rape.” > **[Eddie Slovik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik)** > > Edward Donald Slovik (February 18, 1920 – January 31, 1945) was an American soldier who was court-martialed and executed for desertion during World War II. He was the first and only US serviceman to have met such a fate since the American Civil War, though in 1902, during the American-Philippine War, two American soldiers (Edmund DuBose and Lewis Russell) of the 9th Cavalry Regiment were executed for "desertion to the enemy". Although over 21,000 American servicemen were given varying s During... > [@](#): > > Edward Donald Slovik (February 18, 1920 – January 31, 1945) was a private in the United States Army during World War II and the only American soldier to be court-martialled and executed for desertion since the American Civil War. So they can but rarely do use the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/17 "2011-07-16T19:51:15Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > By the letter of the > > ```auto > > , said soldier should be arrested and sent to court martial. > > In a practical sense, wouldn't the sergeant just shoot him on the spot or have I just seen too many old war movies? > > ``` That’s highly unlikely to happen in a modern military. AFAIK summary exectutions haven’t been done in the US Army since the Civil War if not earlier. They didn happen in the Soviet & German armies during WWII. A US Army seargeant or LT who did that would likely end up being court-maritaled for murder unless there were some very, very, extenuating circumstances (like it was the only way to stop the soldier from giving away their postition or said solider was trying to kill his comrades or civilians). Even then the sergeant would be facing all manner of inquiries. ---
**Author:** ![IMfez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f07891/32.png) [@IMfez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IMfez)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/18 "2011-07-17T00:12:34Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > That’s highly unlikely to happen in a modern military. AFAIK summary exectutions haven’t been done in the US Army since the Civil War if not earlier. They didn happen in the Soviet & German armies during WWII. A US Army seargeant or LT who did that would likely end up being court-maritaled for murder unless there were some very, very, extenuating circumstances (like it was the only way to stop the soldier from giving away their postition or said solider was trying to kill his comrades or civilians). Even then the sergeant would be facing all manner of inquiries. Seems like a lot of paperwork to do during a combat scenario. Do they really have time for formal procedures even in these situations? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/19 "2011-07-17T01:10:43Z")
During the Vietnam war, apparently the opposite of many of these responses happened. There were a large number of incidents, [possibly more than a thousand according to Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging), in which an officer was killed by his own soldiers presumably for issuing too many, er, _unpopular_ orders. I recall a documentary – maybe _Charlie Company_? – when a new lieutenant ordered his men to march down a road to a new location, and a substantial number of the men refused. They were veterans and had been taught by their previous lieutenant never to walk on roads because that’s where the booby traps and ambushes were set. And they didn’t want to get blown to pieces because some new clown gave dangerous orders without understanding their implications. It was eventually talked out and they went on their way because the new officer showed some common sense and listened to reason. I suspect not all of them did. Remember Robert Duvall in _Apocalypse Now_? IMO, he would have been a serious candidate for fragging. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236/20 "2011-07-17T01:17:58Z")
> [@IMfez](#): > > Seems like a lot of paperwork to do during a combat scenario. Do they really have time for formal procedures even in these situations? There’s a lot more time for paperwork than you might think, especially in the asymmetrical conflicts of the last decades. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disobeying-a-direct-order-in-combat/589236.md?page=2)