# Disprove solipsism. Please. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 21, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825 "2010-04-21T03:40:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dostoyevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Dostoyevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dostoyevsky)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/41 "2010-04-21T23:53:24Z")
Thanks to everyone who’s responded. Learnin’ here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/42 "2010-04-22T01:02:34Z")
> [@Dostoyevsky](#): > > Related question: Is it fair to say that pantheism and solipsism are the same? If so, then there’s more solipsists then what I realized initially. **fully aware that I am way over my head in this thread, eager to contribute regardless as I really like this topic a lot** Speaking as someone that self identifies as a pantheist, Imma go head and say, no. They are not the same. Pantheism is very simple. You look at everything, _everything_, the math, the science, the matter, the energy, the logic, the emotion, the tangible, the ether, your own consciousness, and you call it all ‘God’. That seems to be very different than solipsism, as in that case, the person believes that their own mind is the only ‘reality’. It’s not that they are willing to call everything God, it’s that they think \*there is no everything \*at all…outside of their own mind. I am just struggling to try to understand it, actually (pantheists have told me I don’t understand pantheism either). I can’t prove or disprove or fully understand the concept of or spell solipsism, though I try on all counts. I don’t dick ride that often, so I will go ahead and say, I’m impressed Aclockworkmelon can get it in with the big dogs in GD! Go on head, melon! I knew you were funny and quick, but I didn’t know you could hold your own with some philosophy. I’m not trying to patronize you either. I straight up am just enjoying your posts in this thead. 'Nuff respect to all my Doper GD heads that teach me lots every day even though they don’t know it. Carry on/end hijack. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/43 "2010-04-22T01:18:17Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Pantheism is very simple. You look at everything, _everything_, the math, the science, the matter, the energy, the logic, the emotion, the tangible, the ether, your own consciousness, and you call it all ‘God’. A popular misconception. Actually, pantheists worship cooking implements. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/44 "2010-04-22T02:39:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > A popular misconception. Actually, pantheists worship cooking implements. No, you’re thinking of _frying_pantheists. There’s a difference. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/45 "2010-04-22T16:52:11Z")
Splitters! ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/46 "2010-04-22T18:35:42Z")
Give up your solipsism. It’s not all about _you_, okay? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/47 "2010-04-22T18:37:44Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Give up your solipsism. It’s not all about _you_, okay? Well, if it’s about anthing else _but_ me, then it’s still all about me, because everything is just in my mind, which is me. So, er, what was the argument again, part-of-me-called- **Skammer**? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/48 "2010-04-22T19:48:09Z")
It’s a category error. I do not know, and cannot predict or control, what the headline will be in my local newspaper tomorrow. Therefore by definition it is not contained within or created by the part of me that solipsism defines as “my mind”. Therefore reality must exist outside “my mind” - otherwise there would be nothing coming in that I could not predict or control. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/49 "2010-04-22T20:10:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s a category error. > > I do not know, and cannot predict or control, what the headline will be in my local newspaper tomorrow. Therefore by definition it is not contained within or created by the part of me that solipsism defines as “my mind”. Therefore reality must exist outside “my mind” - otherwise there would be nothing coming in that I could not predict or control. > > Regards, > Shodan Or the part of me that solipsism defines as “my mind” could basically be a separate self-contained intelligence, like a subconscious mind with attitiude, that is deliberately keeping secrets from me and doesn’t consider itself subject to my conscious control. Or I could just be making it all as I roll along in my dream and have a broken mind that is both unable to notice any errors that occur and is also to notice any inconsistencies in its own thought (starting with the fact it itself is broken). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/50 "2010-04-22T21:06:17Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Or the part of me that solipsism defines as “my mind” could basically be a separate self-contained intelligence, like a subconscious mind with attitiude, that is deliberately keeping secrets from me and doesn’t consider itself subject to my conscious control. If it has all these attributes, it isn’t “your mind”. It’s separate from “you”. Ergo, something exists apart from “you”. > [@](#): > > Or I could just be making it all as I roll along in my dream and have a broken mind that is both unable to notice any errors that occur and is also to notice any inconsistencies in its own thought (starting with the fact it itself is broken). But you can perceive that there is a difference between your internal thoughts, which you can control, and another class of phenomena that you cannot control. That class is what we call “external reality”. The fact that you recognize the difference means that, again, something exists outside your mind. Otherwise, you would be able to predict and control everything. QRD. Solipsism is one of those philosophical ideas that is glib rather than profound. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/51 "2010-04-22T21:30:20Z")
If solipsism is true, why aren’t I scoring more babes? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/52 "2010-04-22T21:31:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It’s a category error. > > I do not know, and cannot predict or control, what the headline will be in my local newspaper tomorrow. Therefore by definition it is not contained within or created by the part of me that solipsism defines as “my mind”. Therefore reality must exist outside “my mind” - otherwise there would be nothing coming in that I could not predict or control. > > Regards, > Shodan That is an example of its lack of predictive power, but is not a proof. Can you predict and control what you will dream about tonight or wake up thinking about? Perhaps your subconscious mind, which works even in a solipistic scenario, dreams up the headlines for you. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/53 "2010-04-22T21:47:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If it has all these attributes, it isn’t “your mind”. It’s separate from “you”. Ergo, something exists apart from “you”. I hate to tell you this, but all solipsism aside I definitely accept that there are parts of my mind that I do not directly percieve or consciously control. (The specific behavior of the underlying chemicals and electrons, as well as the internal processing of my language recognition/interpretation system, among many other things.) So I must reject your premising assertion here outright, leading me to be unable to use it to argue against solipsism. > [@Shodan](#): > > But you can perceive that there is a difference between your internal thoughts, which you can control, and another class of phenomena that you cannot control. That class is what we call “external reality”. The fact that you recognize the difference means that, again, something exists outside your mind. Otherwise, you would be able to predict and control everything. QRD. What does this have to do with being too stupid to regocognize that you’re only imagining a shoddy _excuse_ for objective reality? (Which is what it was posted in response to.) > [@Shodan](#): > > Solipsism is one of those philosophical ideas that is glib rather than profound. I certainly agree there’s not much there. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/54 "2010-04-22T21:50:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If solipsism is true, why aren’t I scoring more babes? If solipsism is true, you clearly don’t like yourself much, because you inflict pain on yourself when you imagine yourself as doing something painful. Or rather, if solipsism is true, _I_ imagine you to be not scoring more babes, which I’m probably doing to allow me to not feel so bad that I’m not imagining myself as scoring babes either. Self-inflicted misery loves imaginary company. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/55 "2010-04-23T00:03:34Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > If everyone behaves as if they were all different, individual people I’m not. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/56 "2010-04-23T02:14:22Z")
> [@](#): > > If solipsism is true, you clearly don’t like yourself much, because you inflict pain on yourself when you imagine yourself as doing something painful. If solipsism is true, concepts like pleasure and pain are meaningless. If I’m the only being in existence and I enjoy the experience of sticking needles in my eyes, then by definition it’s a universally pleasurable experience. If solipsism is true and I am the sole creator of everything that exists, then everything I experience exists because I made it so. It’s impossible for me to claim I didn’t want something to happen because everything is a result of me making it happen. And everything that doesn’t happen is the result of me not making it happen. So in a solipsist universe, everything is exactly the way I will it to be. So why doesn’t it feel that way? Why do I feel that there are things I want that I don’t have or that I have things I don’t want? A solipsist universe, created solely by me, should be in exact congruence with my desires. One possible explanation is that I have a subconscious that has different desires than my conscious. But how can that fit into a solipsist existence? If the subconscious part of my mind is thinking independantly from the conscious part of my mind, then how can it be a solipsist universe? There are now two distinct entities that are creating it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/57 "2010-04-23T03:55:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If solipsism is true, why aren’t I scoring more babes? See the classic _Red Dwarf_ episode [“Better Than Life.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_Than_Life_%28Red_Dwarf_episode%29) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/58 "2010-04-23T04:18:16Z")
Calculate pi to 1000 digits. Then wait a few weeks (or what your isolated brain-in-a-jar perceives as a few weeks) and repeat the result. If the lists are identical, and you don’t think you could have memorized the earlier result, then it’s fair to say that pi has a constant value over which you have no control, i.e. it exists outside yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/59 "2010-04-23T04:22:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Calculate pi to 1000 digits. Then wait a few weeks (or what your isolated brain-in-a-jar perceives as a few weeks) and repeat the result. If the lists are identical, and you don’t think you could have memorized the earlier result, then it’s fair to say that pi has a constant value over which you have no control, i.e. it exists outside yourself. Not if you could have memorized the **method of calculation** (which you dreamed up anyway). And, anyway, how do you know you got the same result each time? Each sheet of paper is just your hallucination; you could have subconsciously altered the first to match the second. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825/60 "2010-04-23T04:23:59Z")
If the method of calculation is suspect, try two different methods of calculation and see if you get the same result. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disprove-solipsism-please/536825.md?page=4)