# Disputation and The Straight Dope Message Board **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 25, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977 "2019-11-25T18:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/261 "2019-12-01T04:36:10Z")
I probably should have at least sourced that quip, I was referencing Charles Mills’ statement in 1994’s “Non-Cartesian Sums: Philosophy and the African-American Experience”, from the journal “Teaching Philosophy” (one of the largest Philosophy Journals). It summed up his frustration at the white philosophers preaching so-called “universal human rights” without understanding or truly elevating and appreciating black perspectives, and especially at white philosophers throughout history who would preach these things and then turn around and say blatantly racist things: > [@](#): > > Thus there will be a feeling, not to put too fine a point on it, that when you get right down to it, the peculiar features of the African-American experience—racial slavery, with its link between biological phenotype and social subordination, and chronologically located in the modern epoch, ironically coincident with the emergence of liberalism’s proclamation of universal human equality—will be no part of the experience represented in the abstractions of the European or Euro-American philosopher. > > ``` > And those who have grown up in such a universe, asked to pretend that they are living in the other, will be cynically knowing, exchanging glances which signify “There the white folks go again.” They know that what is in the books is largely mythical as a general statement of principles, that it was never intended to be applicable to them in the first place, but that,as part of the routine, within the structure of power relations, one has to pretend that it does. > > Thus there will be a feeling, not to put too fine a point on it, that when you get right down to it, a lot of philosophy is just white guys jerking off…A lot of moral philosophy will then seem to be based on pretense, the claim that these were the principles that people strove to uphold, when in fact the real principles were the racially exclusivist ones. > > ``` I understand the mod note, but this is in itself part of what I’m talking about. Marginalized people can’t express frustration at the state of affairs because if we say something angry that goes the slightest bit off color because we feel we’re not being heard, then we get policed, whereas if the usual suspects “civilly” say heinous things about us we get told to use it as a “teaching moment” (so long as we don’t get frustrated with them and say a mean thing while doing so!). I at the very least reject the notion it’s a “locker room comment”. It’s deliberately provocative, sure, but locker room comments are generally more about… well… actual sex not mental masturbation which I’ve seen both referred to and not modded here before. Hell, Kobal did it a few posts before me (sorry, don’t want to throw you under the bus): > [@](#): > > On the other hand, at the end of the refining process I can’t come until my opponent reluctantly concedes that I might have some semblance of a point :p. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/262 "2019-12-01T04:56:21Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I meant substantial contributions TO THIS THREAD, as measured by number of posts. In this thread, I am pretty sure I am the only woman in the top ten. This isn’t an insult to women . . My point is that most women don’t even bother with these discussions because they’ve been driven off, because they know they aren’t heard. That the damage to the board is real. > > As for how I know, most of that top ten has been posting 10-15 years. At this point, we all oughta know each other’s shoe sizes and zodiac signs. I, too, meant contributions to this thread. I knew you didn’t mean to insult women. I’ve read too many of your posts to think that. And my reasons for not posting more are exactly as you state. I get it that you know the posters who’ve been here for 10-15 years very, very well. Not all of us go back that far. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/263 "2019-12-01T15:07:03Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > (sorry, don’t want to throw you under the bus): Throw away, preach it. That bus ain’t got \*\*shit \*\*on me. (actually it kinda does, but when do I \*ever \*get to Denzel up ?!) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/264 "2019-12-01T18:07:58Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s the “number of replies” column. The numbers are got links. 20 years here and I never knew that. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/265 "2019-12-01T22:16:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Allowing something very much is approving it (but I agree, is not endorsing it) If a crime occurs but the victim doesnt want report it to the authorities but does tell their friends and posts about the event (vaguely) , does that mean FB, the friends, society, and the victim all “approved it”? if you didnt report the post, then the staff didnt allow it. How are the staff to know it happens if not reported? ---
**Author:** ![Textual\_Innuendo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/898d66/32.png) [@Textual\_Innuendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Textual_Innuendo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/266 "2019-12-02T00:26:48Z")
You folk are hilarious. I don’t know what my registration date is, but I’ve been reading the SD for 20 years. I’ve bought memberships for myself and others a number of times. I’ve never posted much, but beyond posting, my browsing of the SD has dropped precipitously in recent years. This is 100% due to, and emblematic of, being given a problem statement of “We’re losing members overall, and we’re losing the handful of ‘good’ conservatives we had, and are becoming an echo chamber / ideological monoculture,” you guys are collectively arriving at “The only solution is more thought policing and much stricter limitations of what can be discussed here! And mods need to be a LOT more active, and looser with the banhammer!” Yeah, that’ll diversify this place _right_ up. In real life I describe my (US) politics as “I think we should invite Canada to invade and establish a real government here.” I bet we agree overall on nearly every substantive political position. Yet I feel like you folk are so far to the left of me and so steeped in the culture of victimhood and needing “safe spaces” and decrying anyone that disagrees with you on any point as moral monsters that there’s no point even reading most SD posts any more. But good luck with the “increasing thought policing and bans” thing, I think that’ll turn out great! Maybe I’ll hear about the Straight Dope finally closing down from one of the other, still interesting places on the internet I read. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/267 "2019-12-02T00:53:03Z")
Once the moderators enforce the rules for liberals, you will see better behavior in the conservatives. I have yet to see a single person banned for mocking Trump’s penis or body or appearance. You can bet if anyone wrote anything remotely similar about Clinton or Obama they would be out in a heartbeat. Faux news was funny the first thousand times but I have yet to see a moderator admonish anyone for using the term when I am certain anyone using the term Washington Compost would get a waring. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/268 "2019-12-02T00:56:40Z")
> [@Textual\_Innuendo](#): > > This is 100% due to, and emblematic of, being given a problem statement of “We’re losing members overall, and we’re losing the handful of ‘good’ conservatives we had, and are becoming an echo chamber / ideological monoculture,” you guys are collectively arriving at “The only solution is more thought policing and much stricter limitations of what can be discussed here! And mods need to be a LOT more active, and looser with the banhammer!” > > Yeah, that’ll diversify this place _right_ up. Why do you value conservative voices more than (social) minority ones? > [@](#): > > In real life I describe my (US) politics as “I think we should invite Canada to invade and establish a real government here.” I bet we agree overall on nearly every substantive political position. Ah yes, the country that was still force sterilizing indigenous women uh _checks clipboard_ carry the two add 7 divide by 6 [3 months ago](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9keaev/indigenous-women-in-canada-are-still-being-sterilized-without-their-consent) Like I ain’t gonna say Canada isn’t better than the US as least they have uh… healthcare and not Donald Trump in charge but I don’t think you’re as left as you think you are if your politics are “literally just Canada.” But then I’m ancom so > [@LAZombie](#): > > I have yet to see a single person banned for mocking Trump’s penis or body or appearance. You can bet if anyone wrote anything remotely similar about Clinton or Obama they would be out in a heartbeat. Yes, the moderators should enforce body shaming even against people who “deserve it” like Trump because it’s not body positivity if it’s applied unevenly, it’s just marking acceptable targets for body-based bigotry. The ableism too. Also the eugenics talk about letting southerners rot for being intellectually inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/269 "2019-12-02T02:27:27Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Once the moderators enforce the rules for liberals, you will see better behavior in the conservatives. > > I have yet to see a single person banned for mocking Trump’s penis or body or appearance. You can bet if anyone wrote anything remotely similar about Clinton or Obama they would be out in a heartbeat. Really ? Have any conservative posters been banned for mocking a Democratic public official ? Any official ? (and hell, Obama made fun of his own ears on numerous occasions…) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/270 "2019-12-02T02:35:06Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > … > > I have yet to see a single person banned for mocking Trump’s penis or body or appearance. You can bet if anyone wrote anything remotely similar about Clinton or Obama they would be out in a heartbeat… Some vicious things were said about Hillary- “harpy”, should be in prison, etc. However, Public figures are just that- Public figures. They put themselves out there, potshots are expected. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/271 "2019-12-02T03:22:11Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > [Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - 2013-04-07](https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-07) > > I don’t necessarily disagree. And finding a way to balance the above cartoon with an interest in discussion is what I’m current working on. > > Please take any direct ideas - no discussion, just ideas - to the thread in GD that I’ve stickied. That’s where I’ll be going through looking for ideas that can facilitate where I’m trying to get us to. So maybe make a separate forum where you stick all the extremist nutbars and let them rant at each other, and the rest of us can just discuss everything like mature adults? (Sort of like the Giraffe Box, only it’s not quite an area for _punishment_, per se?) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/272 "2019-12-02T04:01:09Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Once the moderators enforce the rules for liberals, you will see better behavior in the conservatives. > > I have yet to see a single person banned for mocking Trump’s penis or body or appearance. You can bet if anyone wrote anything remotely similar about Clinton or Obama they would be out in a heartbeat. > > Faux news was funny the first thousand times but I have yet to see a moderator admonish anyone for using the term when I am certain anyone using the term Washington Compost would get a waring. Do you know what is more lame than “They do it to!!”? “In my imagination they would do it too!!” ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/273 "2019-12-02T04:03:14Z")
That would not be the worst idea we could implement. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/274 "2019-12-02T04:07:54Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That would not be the worst idea we could implement. Except for all the threads in ATMB decrying almost every move made. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/275 "2019-12-02T04:33:04Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That would not be the worst idea we could implement. Ah, so of all the things to take from this thread, the one thing mods have advocated actually modding is 1. Something that could effectively be moderated by a bot that searches for naughty phrases like “ugly” or “small dick” 2. Was motivated by accusations that conservatives are, in fact, the ones really being targeted I even agreed with modding body shaming comments regardless of target, because I truly believe it’s not allyship if you simply designate acceptable targets (e.g. “trans friendly” people who make fun of conservative trans women for being trans). But if that’s the only thing the moderation takes from this discussion I actually give up. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/276 "2019-12-02T05:00:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Except for all the threads in ATMB decrying almost every move made. Box anyone who decries a boxing. 😃 No, seriously, only an problem child would fight to keep another problem child’s voice from being taken away from being able to bother the masses. By boxing them the two of them could live happily in their little problem child bubble where they would always agree with each other. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/277 "2019-12-02T05:04:33Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Ah, so of all the things to take from this thread, the one thing mods have advocated actually modding is > > 1. Something that could effectively be moderated by a bot that searches for naughty phrases like “ugly” or “small dick” > > 2. Was motivated by accusations that conservatives are, in fact, the ones really being targeted > > I even agreed with modding body shaming comments regardless of target, because I truly believe it’s not allyship if you simply designate acceptable targets (e.g. “trans friendly” people who make fun of conservative trans women for being trans). But if that’s the only thing the moderation takes from this discussion I actually give up. I thought you were replying to the quote chain immediately above you, not the boxing one quoting you, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/278 "2019-12-02T05:08:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If a crime occurs but the victim doesnt want report it to the authorities but does tell their friends and posts about the event (vaguely) , does that mean FB, the friends, society, and the victim all “approved it”? The victim is the only one who gets to decide, that’s not the same as approval (especially not in a victim-blaming culture). Here, you get modded whether the victim wants you to be or not - as many ATMB threads can attest to. > [@](#): > > if you didnt report the post, then the staff didnt allow it. How are the staff to know it happens if not reported? You’re assuming it wasn’t reported, but anyway, I’m pretty sure they’re aware of it _now_. And people get modded for things mods see that weren’t reported. Reporting isn’t necessary for moderation to exist. \*\*\*But that’s irrelevant. \*\*\* I know I certainly didn’t report it because _I already knew it wouldn’t get modded_. Because the mods have made it painfully clear by direct statements that if you’re polite, you can say what you like about African intellectual inferiority\*\* in GD\*\*. It would be no different in the Pit. So when I say it’s sanctioned, that’s because the moderation staff have outright told me it is. Reporting it would be like reporting **Shodan** ’s sig - something that _by his own admission_ sometimes mean “fuck you”, they have explicitly said they allow. Reporting it would be a waste of effort. Same-same with polite phrasings of “Blacks are congenitally dumber” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/279 "2019-12-02T07:32:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > … > > I know I certainly didn’t report it because _I already knew it wouldn’t get modded_. > > Because the mods have made it painfully clear by direct statements that if you’re polite, you can say what you like about African intellectual inferiority\*\* in GD\*\*. It would be no different in the Pit. > … “I didn’t bother to report it to the police, as i knew they wouldn’t do anything.”☹ In GD? Since when? That’s been a long time. In the Pit, yes, but I am agreeing, lets get rid of the Pit. Well, if it is blatant, and reported, they should do something. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/280 "2019-12-02T08:33:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “I didn’t bother to report it to the police, as i knew they wouldn’t do anything.”☹ Yes, you are accurately describing a) why many rapes aren’t reported b) why many POC would not go to the cops for certain crimes, either I fail to see why this seems surprising enough that you haz a sad about it. > [@](#): > > In GD? Since when? As long as I’ve been here. There are plenty of ATMB threads about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977.md?page=15)