# Disputation and The Straight Dope Message Board **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 25, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977 "2019-11-25T18:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/281 "2019-12-02T15:54:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Reporting it would be like reporting **Shodan** ’s sig - something that _by his own admission_ sometimes mean “fuck you”, they have explicitly said they allow. Reporting it would be a waste of effort. Same-same with polite phrasings of “Blacks are congenitally dumber” Things like “the races should be kept separate and preserved for their… uniqueness” too, apparently. That’s a perfectly fine idea to advance on this board. ETA: The example I have in mind is in IMHO, not GD, to be fair. Not sure if that makes allowing it to stand there as opposed to GD makes it better or worse. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/282 "2019-12-02T16:30:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 20 years here and I never knew that. Thanks! Now that you know, you’ll be able to experience the frustration of not easily accessing it when following links to old threads. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/283 "2019-12-02T17:14:52Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > Once the moderators enforce the rules for liberals, you will see better behavior in the conservatives. > > I have yet to see a single person banned for mocking Trump’s penis or body or appearance. You can bet if anyone wrote anything remotely similar about Clinton or Obama they would be out in a heartbeat. > > Faux news was funny the first thousand times but I have yet to see a moderator admonish anyone for using the term when I am certain anyone using the term Washington Compost would get a waring. Forgot about 2016, did we? How about [Are reports of Hillary Clinton throwing tantrums credible?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=811539&highlight=hillary) [The arrogance of the left-wing](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810955&highlight=hillary) [This Isn’t Hillary Clinton’s Fault. Where’s Obama?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810371&highlight=hillary) [I Pit Hillary Clinton](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810079&highlight=hillary) [“We told you so!” (Anti-Clinton Rant)](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=808316&highlight=hillary) [Clinton is a war criminal and Obama also, and a murderer to boot.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810493&highlight=Obama) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/284 "2019-12-02T17:19:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > … > As long as I’ve been here. There are plenty of ATMB threads about it. Please give a link to the most recent GD threads. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/285 "2019-12-02T17:51:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So maybe make a separate forum where you stick all the extremist nutbars and let them rant at each other, and the rest of us can just discuss everything like mature adults? > > (Sort of like the Giraffe Box, only it’s not quite an area for _punishment_, per se?) We have the pit for that. The two debate forums have clear rules that aren’t that hard to follow. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/286 "2019-12-02T18:03:33Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Really ? Have any conservative posters been banned for mocking a Democratic public official ? Any official ? > > (and hell, Obama made fun of his own ears on numerous occasions…) Yes (Kind of) > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Hampshire View Post > Disagree. I think anytime a female makes her voice heard people immediately label her a Harpy. Pelosi… harpy, Fiorina… harpy, Warren… harpy. Clinton to me is far from “shrill”. It’s just a female voice. Get over it. > [@](#): > > If you are directing that at me, then that is quite offensive. It reminds me of 2008 when people wanted to label me as a racist because Obama is black and I must not think Obama will be a good President for racial reasons. You know even though I am a Republican I don’t necessarily pass judgements on race in 2008 nor do I pass judgement based on gender in 2016. > > It has nothing to do with “a female mak[ing] her voice heard” so go ahead and shove the accusation of sexism up your ass where it belongs. It is an attack on one specific woman whose voice gets shrill when she is building up the energy in her speech so she sounds like a harpy and it makes THAT SPECIFIC WOMAN displeasing to listen to. > > So don’t generalize a statement I make about one specific woman into an accusation of generalized sexism again. I was warned for “Being a jerk” (Not) Suprisingly the “Get over it” was not warned. Given the modding at the time my warning was perhaps deserved but not one of the post that accused me of being sexist because I didn’t like Clinton was warned. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/287 "2019-12-02T18:24:32Z")
Dude, you said “shove [it] up your ass.” You think that’s the same level as “get over it”? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/288 "2019-12-02T19:34:09Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Dude, you said “shove [it] up your ass.” You think that’s the same level as “get over it”? What’s lost is in that thread the repeated accusations that were thrown at me of being sexist\* because she sounds like a harpy. I had had enough and none of the mods did anything about the posts I reported. So the rule is you can accuse a person of being sexist but being offended by that accusation and responding accordingly is warnable. I nNever said it was at the same level. But isn’t it being a jerk to tell someone to get over it when they say they don’t like the sound of someone’s voice? Isn’t it being a jerk when someone says “I don’t like this candidate who is black/female” when they respond “You’re a racist/sexist”? - And guess what, none of those people made any mention of my posts about how women suffer from the “likability penalty” in a later thread. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/289 "2019-12-02T19:53:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Please give a link to the most recent GD threads. Thank you. Please balance a ball on your nose and clap your flippers. Thank you in advance. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/290 "2019-12-02T20:02:07Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What’s lost is in that thread the repeated accusations that were thrown at me of being sexist\* because she sounds like a harpy. I had had enough and none of the mods did anything about the posts I reported. So the rule is you can accuse a person of being sexist but being offended by that accusation and responding accordingly is warnable. > > I nNever said it was at the same level. But isn’t it being a jerk to tell someone to get over it when they say they don’t like the sound of someone’s voice? Isn’t it being a jerk when someone says “I don’t like this candidate who is black/female” when they respond “You’re a racist/sexist”? > > - And guess what, none of those people made any mention of my posts about how women suffer from the “likability penalty” in a later thread. “Harpy” IS sexist. You don’t get a punch card where you get to say a certain number of sexist things about a certain number of women before you get called a sexist. Use the “n-word”, you’re racist. Use a word that’s hundreds of years old, you’re sexist. You’re on the internet. If you’re older than, you’re pretending or you’re just hostile to looking up ANYTHING. Like “harpy.” [Women Portrayed as Animals/Beasts](https://www.ferris.edu/moso/objectification/womenasanimals/index.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/291 "2019-12-02T20:20:50Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Yes (Kind of) > I was warned for “Being a jerk” (Not) Suprisingly the “Get over it” was not warned. So, not for criticizing Clinton. Also, you’re still here, thereby demonstrably not “out within a heartbeat” as \*\*LAZombie \*\*claimed. Anything else ? Or can we conclusively file this under Shit\_That\_Doesn’t\_Happen.txt ? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/292 "2019-12-02T23:04:52Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Now that you know, you’ll be able to experience the frustration of not easily accessing it when following links to old threads. You can take this URL: [NOPARSE][https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=885910[/NOPARSE]](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=885910%5B/NOPARSE%5D) and replace that last number (after the “t=”) with the thread ID. If you don’t know the thread ID, you can usually find it by looking at the “Previous Thread” and “Next Thread” buttons at the bottom of the page. If you are replying to a thread, the thread ID is at the end of the hyperlink near the top right, the one that reads the thread’s name, right under “Log Out”. Frustrating perhaps, but no more frustrating than typing out the BBCode for any other link. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/293 "2019-12-03T00:35:43Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The only role the professor plays is to tell the class “I will kick out anyone who raises their voice”. After a bit the conversation shifts–but the next day, the student makes the same claim. Again, people get upset. Several go to the professor after class. They ask him to shut it down. He says “It’s not my place to decide if he’s right or not. As long as he doesn’t raise his voice, he can say whatever he wants in my classroom. I hope you guys can change his mind”. For what it’s worth, I’m on the professor’s side in this hypothetical. Appealing to the negative consequences that you write into the hypothetical is not enough to convince me that the professor is in the wrong in the general case. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/294 "2019-12-03T01:06:11Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@MrDibble](#): > > Please balance a ball on your nose and clap your flippers. Thank you in advance. If you want to be snippy, take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/295 "2019-12-03T01:23:59Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What’s lost is in that thread the repeated accusations that were thrown at me of being sexist\* because she sounds like a harpy. Seriously? You’re still clinging to this “I was talking about her voice” excuse? [As I explained to you at the time](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19522785&postcount=12), “harpy” does not mean “person with an irritating voice.” It is a gender-specific insult meaning “a shrewish woman” ([Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harpy)), “A grasping, unpleasant woman” ([Oxford](https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/harpy)), and “a scolding, nagging, bad-tempered woman” ([Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/harpy)). You were justifiably called on the carpet for repeatedly using a sexist insult, and you tried to wriggle out of it by inventing your own definition of “harpy.” And apparently you’re still butthurt over it. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/296 "2019-12-03T02:27:52Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > For what it’s worth, I’m on the professor’s side in this hypothetical. Appealing to the negative consequences that you write into the hypothetical is not enough to convince me that the professor is in the wrong in the general case. Well, that is unsurprising but it is the status quo here already. I know you love debating and try to keep emotion out but would you really be disappointed if we no longer debated whether blacks are intellectually inferior around here anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/297 "2019-12-03T03:10:37Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > Seriously? You’re still clinging to this “I was talking about her voice” excuse? > > [As I explained to you at the time](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19522785&postcount=12), “harpy” does not mean “person with an irritating voice.” It is a gender-specific insult meaning “a shrewish woman” ([Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harpy)), “A grasping, unpleasant woman” ([Oxford](https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/harpy)), and “a scolding, nagging, bad-tempered woman” ([Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/harpy)). > > You were justifiably called on the carpet for repeatedly using a sexist insult, and you tried to wriggle out of it by inventing your own definition of “harpy.” And apparently you’re still butthurt over it. Jesus. One criticism of Hillary you’d have heard from the right (especially during her presidential runs) is that she’s “shrill”. That is sometimes referred to as being sexist, see below. > **[The Long, Sexist History of 'Shrill' Women](https://time.com/4268325/history-calling-women-shrill/)** > > Those who have the most reason to speak up tend to be the ones told to keep quiet. My guess is that Saint Cad was remembering that controversy and defending it (since “shrill” absolutely references a person’s voice) despite the fact that the word he used (harpy) is a completely different and unrelated term. Just my WAG here. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/298 "2019-12-03T04:18:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, that is unsurprising but it is the status quo here already. I know you love debating and try to keep emotion out but would you really be disappointed if we no longer debated whether blacks are intellectually inferior around here anymore? Part of being conservative is having a tendency to keep the status quo. (the “conserve” part?) Let me tell you a little story. Once upon a time, at the turn of the century, _I_ thought that girls were inferior creatures. They couldn’t be cool, they couldn’t be smart, they couldn’t be fun like us boys. I didn’t tell anybody, or think to do so, this was self-evident to me. I was mean to girls. Apparently I would cut up their hair or spit on them, etc. One summer I became friends with this really cool guy (named “Brett” I think) at one of the lovely beaches here. We did like, sandcastles and shell collecting, made shark-tooth necklaces, Florida stuff. About three hours into our friendship we went into the water. He took off his shirt, and to my astonishment was wearing a bikini. “Why are you wearing a bikini like a _girl_?” “I _am_ a girl. Is that a problem, Max?” Nervous laugh. Worldview shattered. I was so ashamed, and still am, to this day. I cannot stress how important that lesson was and is to me as a person. It is so incredibly easy for me to understand how a person might grow up and never realize how wrong they are about other people. I guess it’s not a perfect example, but life doesn’t always give me perfect examples to build on. I’ve noticed that people project themselves upon others when using the internet. You can see it happen in this very thread. The internet presents a great opportunity to reach all of those ignorant people who may never listen to your words in real life, but do so here. I want this to be a place of learning, like that beach was for me nearly two decades ago. I want someone - me, you, whoever - to come here, bring their bigotry, their ignorance, have their world shattered, be ashamed, and then become a better person for it. That’s my vision of fighting ignorance. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/299 "2019-12-03T05:07:52Z")
With all due respect, that sounds like an early childhood memory. We get adult bigots here. They aren’t going to have your soft focus gentle awakening. You aren’t going to pile some words together that will remotely equal the impact this story had on you as a child. Never. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/300 "2019-12-03T05:49:17Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > With all due respect, that sounds like an early childhood memory. We get adult bigots here. They aren’t going to have your soft focus gentle awakening. You aren’t going to pile some words together that will remotely equal the impact this story had on you as a child. Never. It was a childhood memory. Epiphany moments are not limited to one’s childhood. I don’t know how it works as one grows older, but during my eight or nine months on these boards I have shifted to a different foundation for my personal moral system. I also flipped from entertaining the possibility of physicalism/epiphenomenalism to physicalism/substance-dualism. As a direct result of participating in debates, here. There were moments where I just realized that I was wrong, and sometimes that someone else was right. You have to realize that some of these people, on the alt-right or whatever you want to call it, they are young dudes like me. It would have been _this easy_ for me to be one of them. That was the point of my story. I’ve met some of them online and in person. They aren’t all stupid and they aren’t all rotten to the core. It’s not too late to talk sense into them. Have you read Plato? Maybe bigots won’t let us speak back in the cave, but if someone should happen to stumble halfway into the light, covering his eyes with his hands, shouldn’t we be there to say, “lift your hands and open your eyes”? Lest he fall back inside and convince his compatriots that there is nothing to see out here. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977.md?page=16)