# Disputation and The Straight Dope Message Board **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 25, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977 "2019-11-25T18:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tricoteuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tricoteuse/32/4334_2.png) [@tricoteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tricoteuse)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/21 "2019-11-25T20:48:20Z")
I know I stormed out in the other thread but I got to thinking maybe I was too harsh. I saw later on that the poster I was steamed up about did get warned for his post and things seemed to have settle down so I thought I’d see what was going on in the aftermath of all of it. Firstly, I haven’t been here that long so I don’t know squat about how this board used to be twenty years ago or ten or five or even one. I can only judge it by how it is now, and how people post now, not how the “good old days” might have been. Trying to blame everything on current American culture and hinting that everyone who is a member here is all equally to blame seems like a passive-aggressive attempt to pass the buck instead of taking a long hard look at what isn’t working and why. Everyone here makes a big deal out of how the main rule is “don’t be a jerk.” That means when people act like jerks, the moderators have to STOP them being jerks. Regular posters can’t do anything. If you tell someone to stop acting a certain way, you’re junior modding. If you call someone a jerk anywhere but the pit, you get in trouble for insulting another poster. If you ask people to stay on topic you get told you dn’t get to dictate how people respond to your thread. All you need is one problem poster who thinks “screw you, you’re not the boss of me!” and the thread gets overrun. The moderators DO have that power, but don’t always use it. As a result, the posters who are being jerks keep being jerks, other posters are helpless to stop them, so the only ones left in the threads are the jerks and the posters who can’t help challenging them for whatever reasons. You can post all the fluffy sunshine and butterflies feel-good stuff you want, and daydream about the good old days all you want, but that’s not going to accomplish anything. Those days are over. This is now. The members you have now are what you have to work with. If you want to make the board a more civil and welcoming place, DO something! It has to start with recruiting moderators who are willing to call being a jerk what it is and stop it before it gets out of hand. And let the moderators use their discretion to do their jobs. Mods who abuse their power get kicked out. If the problem is too many tedious little conflicting rules that the “rules lawyers” can pick apart for loopholes, ditch all the rules and come up with a few clear ones that allow for leeway in interpretation. It really does look like you’re trying to blame the membership for not being as kind and welcoming as you think they should be. Guess what, trying to guilt them into changing the board on their own won’t work. Look at any workplace where the boss won’t stand by their employees and see how cheerful and productive they are. Look at a group of kids where the teacher’s pet or the class bully is allowed to do whatever they want and tell them to be more accepting and patient. Think about a fine-dining restaurant where someone is yelling and throwing food and making a ruckus but the manager won’t tell them to leave, and expect the other guests to enjoy their meals. Change at the bottom won’t come without change at the top. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/22 "2019-11-25T20:52:25Z")
I propose that for every new rule, that is almost universally seen as stupid and unnecessary by us posters (cough cuntgate /cough), at least one new rule that posters think is a good idea be adopted. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/23 "2019-11-25T20:54:07Z")
> [@tricoteuse](#): > > I know I stormed out in the other thread but I got to thinking maybe I was too harsh. I saw later on that the poster I was steamed up about did get warned for his post and things seemed to have settle down so I thought I’d see what was going on in the aftermath of all of it. > > Firstly, I haven’t been here that long so I don’t know squat about how this board used to be twenty years ago or ten or five or even one. I can only judge it by how it is now, and how people post now, not how the “good old days” might have been. > > Trying to blame everything on current American culture and hinting that everyone who is a member here is all equally to blame seems like a passive-aggressive attempt to pass the buck instead of taking a long hard look at what isn’t working and why. > > Everyone here makes a big deal out of how the main rule is “don’t be a jerk.” That means when people act like jerks, the moderators have to STOP them being jerks. Regular posters can’t do anything. If you tell someone to stop acting a certain way, you’re junior modding. If you call someone a jerk anywhere but the pit, you get in trouble for insulting another poster. If you ask people to stay on topic you get told you dn’t get to dictate how people respond to your thread. All you need is one problem poster who thinks “screw you, you’re not the boss of me!” and the thread gets overrun. > > The moderators DO have that power, but don’t always use it. As a result, the posters who are being jerks keep being jerks, other posters are helpless to stop them, so the only ones left in the threads are the jerks and the posters who can’t help challenging them for whatever reasons. > > You can post all the fluffy sunshine and butterflies feel-good stuff you want, and daydream about the good old days all you want, but that’s not going to accomplish anything. Those days are over. This is now. The members you have now are what you have to work with. > > If you want to make the board a more civil and welcoming place, DO something! It has to start with recruiting moderators who are willing to call being a jerk what it is and stop it before it gets out of hand. And let the moderators use their discretion to do their jobs. Mods who abuse their power get kicked out. If the problem is too many tedious little conflicting rules that the “rules lawyers” can pick apart for loopholes, ditch all the rules and come up with a few clear ones that allow for leeway in interpretation. > > It really does look like you’re trying to blame the membership for not being as kind and welcoming as you think they should be. Guess what, trying to guilt them into changing the board on their own won’t work. Look at any workplace where the boss won’t stand by their employees and see how cheerful and productive they are. Look at a group of kids where the teacher’s pet or the class bully is allowed to do whatever they want and tell them to be more accepting and patient. Think about a fine-dining restaurant where someone is yelling and throwing food and making a ruckus but the manager won’t tell them to leave, and expect the other guests to enjoy their meals. > > Change at the bottom won’t come without change at the top. 100% agreement with 100% of this post. ---
**Author:** ![tricoteuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tricoteuse/32/4334_2.png) [@tricoteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tricoteuse)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/24 "2019-11-25T20:54:11Z")
Cuntgate?? What??? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/25 "2019-11-25T20:58:40Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Amen, TubaDiva!! > > Too many people make a game out of walking the edge of civility or of crossing that line entirely and then arguing technicalities in an effort to justify themselves. If this Board goes up or down, it does so because of the behavior of the people posting, not because of moderators. > > Working in the educational world has shown me first hand that far too many kids have the attitude that it is someone else’s job to “make” them behave as opposed to viewing it as a social responsibility that is their own. These kids ultimately become adults. Does that mean that their attitude automatically changes for the better? I don’t think so. > > It is our responsibility to make this a good place and no one else’s. Pretty much all of us can do a better job of it, and that includes me. That sounds good and all, but it IS on the moderators to set the tone of this board. People who enjoy that game you mentioned aren’t going to suddenly not enjoy it because of some kumbaya moment. Somebody has to rein them in, and that somebody is not us. It’s the moderators. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/26 "2019-11-25T20:59:18Z")
> [@tricoteuse](#): > > Cuntgate?? What??? When Ed (former runner of things) decided that the way to make the Pit a warmer and friendly place was to ban . . . words. > **[Pit rules have been revised](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508033)** > > We’ve revised the rules in the BBQ Pit - see: Notable changes: All comments and complaints about SDMB administration must now go in the About This Message Board forum. No abusive remarks directed at other posters. Basically this means you... CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/27 "2019-11-25T21:01:18Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > When Ed decided that the way to make the Pit a warmer and friendly place was to ban words. Is that why we were only recently allowed to say _fuck you_ in the Pit? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/28 "2019-11-25T21:01:56Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Is that why we were only recently allowed to say _fuck you_ in the Pit? Yep. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/29 "2019-11-25T21:08:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yep. Am I the only poster to actually get a official warning, instead of your friendly reminder, for saying ‘fuck you’? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![tricoteuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tricoteuse/32/4334_2.png) [@tricoteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tricoteuse)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/30 "2019-11-25T21:09:03Z")
I’m glad I came on board after that. That must have been boring! ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/31 "2019-11-25T21:12:49Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > The SDMB reflects our society. Today we are in an increasingly tribal, unceasingly warring culture. People don’t discuss or debate in good faith, they decry, they demand, they assault. On the scorched fields of discourse they relentlessly search for targets to attack and destroy. Much of this is played out on the board, and it makes for hard going. > … > I ask for your assistance and your forbearance too; we can’t get there overnight. And we can’t get there unless everyone does their part. Be an active force for better; model the attitudes and behavior you want to see here. I believe good content has the potential to drive out the bad. Light can dispel darkness. I believe we can go back to a time when we were more gracious, where we gave the benefit of the doubt, where we respected the right to agree to disagree, when we didn’t judge people so hard and so harshly and hated them because they were different. I would argue that our culture is facing very different challenges today than what was faced during whatever Golden Age this message board had. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/32 "2019-11-25T21:15:12Z")
> [@tricoteuse](#): > > I’m glad I came on board after that. That must have been boring! No, didn’t change the Pit in the slightest. Entirely because Miller, the true child of Giraffe, knows how to run the Pit. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/33 "2019-11-25T21:15:49Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Am I the only poster to actually get a official warning, instead of your friendly reminder, for saying ‘fuck you’? > > CMC fnord! Maybe, but one poster was banned for it. Of course he did it multiple times in a row even after being warned for it. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/34 "2019-11-25T21:20:02Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I would argue that our culture is facing very different challenges today than what was faced during whatever Golden Age this message board had. This golden age never really existed, what’s different is people are Now more willing to call out the overt racism and sexism that run deep in this board. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/35 "2019-11-25T21:22:07Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > I would argue that our culture is facing very different challenges today than what was faced during whatever Golden Age this message board had. I’m not so sure about that, the “Golden Years” were probably during Bush/Cheney not long after the Clinton Impeachment. Politics were pretty chaotic then also. The bigger problem is message boards are slowly dying, much like newspapers. We lose people at a faster rate than they are replaced. We don’t get many younger posters. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/36 "2019-11-25T21:29:29Z")
This kinder-gentler Dope was a time when rape jokes were considered heeelarious and anyone who disagreed was expected to STFU. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/37 "2019-11-25T21:33:56Z")
I’m having a boomer moment because I distinctly remember how freewheeling the Dope used to be. The sex topics, the humans sacirfices in the pit, the two faced sock puppets, the egos and meltdowns, oh it was so entertaining. Yeah I’ve been searching the glory days…sigh/ I don’t care for super moderation, anyone can call out a jerk on the spot, but the skill is doing so without being a jerk. THen let it go! FFS someof ya’ll beat the horse dead in these threads. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/38 "2019-11-25T21:34:45Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > This kinder-gentler Dope was a time when rape jokes were considered heeelarious and anyone who disagreed was expected to STFU. That was also our kinder-gentler nation. I think back to the nineties, and ACT-UP’s slogan “SILENCE=DEATH.” They were shouting to anyone who would listen about how gay men were being killed by public policy. Not many people heard them. Pat Buchanan declared a Culture War at the 1992 Republican National Convention, railing about how homosexuals would destroy our country. He got heard. I think one of the biggest changes our culture is seeing is that groups that were previously not heard are being heard more now. It’s not the only change, but we need to be careful not to confuse lack of vocal dissent with a good society. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/39 "2019-11-25T21:38:32Z")
Exactly, and the Dope’s response to this awakening is to ask all these new voices to STFU. It’s why I say this is a safe space for old men. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/40 "2019-11-25T21:43:55Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > This kinder-gentler Dope was a time when rape jokes were considered heeelarious and anyone who disagreed was expected to STFU. Yep, and if you acted disgusted by a self-admitted pedophile for claiming that a 4 year old who played “peekabo” with him actually wanted to have sex with him, you got warned for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977.md?page=3)