# Disputation and The Straight Dope Message Board **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 25, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977 "2019-11-25T18:20:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/121 "2019-11-28T01:16:47Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > And the board admin should lean towards your view why, exactly? Where, exactly, did he say that? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/122 "2019-11-28T01:18:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Where, exactly, did he say that? (If this is interesting to you, cool, but I’m not feeling any need to defend myself here.) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/123 "2019-11-28T01:38:02Z")
Moreover, something tells me the ‘view’ Left Hand of Dorkness want ‘us’ to ‘lean towards’ isn’t what’s being inferred. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/124 "2019-11-28T01:57:10Z")
LHOD, please add to your list: responding to questions asked in good faith. I’ve seen way too many instances that go like this: Poster A: inflammatory statement Poster B: asks question of A Poster C: asks question of A Poster D: asks question of A Ten or 20 posts later, Poster A pops up again and doesn’t answer a single one of the questions. It doesn’t make for good debate, and if A then posts another controversial statement, it looks a lot like, well, bad faith arguing, to put it charitably. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/125 "2019-11-28T02:17:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > … > > Since your “everybody” seems to include racists, misogynists, homophobes, transphobes, Islamophobes…the list goes on. Who decides which poster is one of those? Is saying “I like boobies” misogyny or just old school cluelessness? Or just crassness? Is not liking Rep Omars positions being a “Islamophobe”? Is saying the sex you were born with is your sex= transphobe? Those labels have been throw around much too easily. And if they really one of those, and they get out of hand they get slapped down. If they remain mostly civil, but still dead wrong, then tell them (well they wont listen, but others will) in \*clear, concise, civil and cited \*language will help defeat their ignorance. We are here to **Defeat Ignorance**. \*The only way to defeat ignorance is to fight it. \* ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/126 "2019-11-28T02:24:21Z")
> [@tricoteuse](#): > > … > Everyone here makes a big deal out of how the main rule is “don’t be a jerk.” That means when people act like jerks, the moderators have to STOP them being jerks. Regular posters can’t do anything. If you tell someone to stop acting a certain way, you’re junior modding. If you call someone a jerk anywhere but the pit, you get in trouble for insulting another poster. If you ask people to stay on topic you get told you dn’t get to dictate how people respond to your thread. … You _can_ call posters out- by concentrating and calling out what they\* posted\*, not what \*you think \*they _are._ Someone makes a post you think is racist- you can & should say: “That post comes across as racist” . You _can’t_ say “You are a racist”. You can certainly can _ask_ people to stay on topic. I do it all the time. But nicely. You cant demand and if after asking nicely once, they continue- \*\*report. \*\* The Mods cant be expected to read every post. If you read a jerkish post and dont report it, then- that’s your fault, not theirs. If nothing is done, you can PM them. If it continues, start a thread in ATMB. \*\*You do have power. \*\* A Regular poster can do a lot. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/127 "2019-11-28T02:30:08Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Exactly. And “I’ll hold them for you” cracks in bra threads. Even today, if someone literally says “Africans are genetically inferior, and by and large lack the capacity to be as intelligent as whites”, well, it’s the person that calls them “racist” who is being mean-spirited, and trying to censor honest discussion. > > … And rightly so. Because how does that poster know the other poster is racist? You dont. You can say “_Hey, your post saying_ “Africans are genetically inferior, and by and large lack the capacity to be as intelligent as whites” _is usually considered a racist view. And you are incorrect due t_o this cite, this cite and this cite.” " Namecalling does not fight ignorance. Education does. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/128 "2019-11-28T02:31:52Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So I’m not clear what we’re being asked to do. Are they asking me to stop calling out racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry? The answer is no. Call the \*posts \*out, but dont call posters names. “That post sounds pretty racist”= yes. “You are a racist”= no. is that so hard? Same rule we have had since I was a member. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/129 "2019-11-28T02:33:44Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I don’t work for you, you work for me. You started to work for me when you took my money to be a member. I don’t care if it’s $15 or $1, once you took my money, the SDMB stopped being a website I posted on and became a product I buy. Fix it. As also a paying member,\*\* I\*\* dont think it needs fixing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/130 "2019-11-28T02:35:53Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I don’t give a shit what either of you think, old white men’s sense of entitlement is a big fucking part of the problem around here. See, to me, that post, \*attacking people by their race, sex and age \*comes across as \*\*bigoted. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/131 "2019-11-28T03:57:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And rightly so. Because how does that poster know the other poster is racist? You dont. You can say “_Hey, your post saying_ “Africans are genetically inferior, and by and large lack the capacity to be as intelligent as whites” _is usually considered a racist view. And you are incorrect due t_o this cite, this cite and this cite.” " > Namecalling does not fight ignorance. Education does. Well, you’re certainly being the voice of “everything’s fine”. It may be asking too much for everyone to endure endless rounds of “racism isn’t scientific”. Most people here aren’t ignorance fighting robots. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/132 "2019-11-28T04:47:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Who decides which poster is one of those? Is saying “I like boobies” misogyny or just old school cluelessness? Or just crassness? Distinctions without difference. > [@](#): > > Is not liking Rep Omars positions being a “Islamophobe”? No > [@](#): > > Is saying the sex you were born with is your sex= transphobe? Yes > [@](#): > > Those labels have been throw around much too easily. It only \*looks \*that way because people are throwing around misogynistic and transphobic and racist comments around much too easily. There’s less of the outright homophobia, Islamophobia or antisemitism nowadays, but that’s down to a change across the board. > [@](#): > > And if they really one of those, and they get out of hand they get slapped down. Apparently, not if they’re polite about it. > [@](#): > > If they remain mostly civil There’s \*nothing \*civil about telling someone they don’t, or shouldn’t, exist, regardless of phrasing. > [@](#): > > We are here to **Defeat Ignorance**. No, we’re really not. It’s just a stupid tagline, people need to get over it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/133 "2019-11-28T04:55:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And rightly so. Because how does that poster know the other poster is racist? You dont. They’re advocating a strongly racist position on a message board. Of course they’re a racist. > [@](#): > > You can say “_Hey, your post saying_ “Africans are genetically inferior, and by and large lack the capacity to be as intelligent as whites” _is usually considered a racist view. And you are incorrect due t_o this cite, this cite and this cite.” " So, someone who posts “All Jews are greedy and venal” should be responded to with a bunch of cites on Jewish generosity and anti-corruption efforts, I take it? Fuck that noise. > [@](#): > > Namecalling does not fight ignorance. Education does. Racism isn’t _ignorance_. It’s hate. You can’t reason people out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/134 "2019-11-28T05:20:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > … Is saying “I like boobies” misogyny or just old school cluelessness?.. No question that intent matters. I prefer to err on presuming cluelessness over malintent when possible (your respond to the post not the poster) … but cluelessness that is willfully and persistently ignorant transitions minimally into jerkishness. And functionally is as harmful as ill intent. Independent of intent it is best constrained. Just my selfish desires: I want to understand how conservatives think and why and to discuss back and forth respectively with them. I don’t care to waste my time with understanding racists, wannabe fascists, anti-Semites, or a variety of other -ists. Cutting slack on intent once is chill. Persistence of those posts not. Can we have the former without the latter? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/135 "2019-11-28T05:48:33Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Well, you’re certainly being the voice of “everything’s fine”. > > It may be asking too much for everyone to endure endless rounds of “racism isn’t scientific”. Most people here aren’t ignorance fighting robots. Endless rounds? Gee, I dont think we have had one of them for like a year? Do you think we get like a couple dozen every month or something? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/136 "2019-11-28T05:51:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > They’re advocating a strongly racist position on a message board. Of course they’re a racist. > So, someone who posts “All Jews are greedy and venal” should be responded to with a bunch of cites on Jewish generosity and anti-corruption efforts, I take it? > > … > > Racism isn’t _ignorance_. It’s hate. You can’t reason people out of positions they didn’t reason themselves into. Or they are trolling. Or ignorant. They may have read it on a racist board, and will be educated. That would get a warning, I suspect. You can educate ignorant people, and most racists are ignorant. I’d like to change their mind. You? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/137 "2019-11-28T06:21:25Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > LHOD, please add to your list: responding to questions asked in good faith. I’ve seen way too many instances that go like this: > > Poster A: inflammatory statement > Poster B: asks question of A > Poster C: asks question of A > Poster D: asks question of A > > Ten or 20 posts later, Poster A pops up again and doesn’t answer a single one of the questions. It doesn’t make for good debate, and if A then posts another controversial statement, it looks a lot like, well, bad faith arguing, to put it charitably. Related to the above: Poster A essentially asking for the exact same cite in various threads while continually ignoring cites provided by Posters B, C, and D. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/138 "2019-11-28T06:22:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Or they are trolling. So they’re _insincere_ racists. And I doubt the non-racism of any troll who uses racist language to troll. _In trollo veritas_, I say. > [@](#): > > Or ignorant. Not in my experience. The race realist posters here are not uninformed. They just purposely choose information sources that match their existing bigotries. > [@](#): > > They may have read it on a racist board, and will be educated. Listen to yourself - someone who picks things up on a racist board, and then comes here to start threads advocating for the inferiority of a races, is just “ignorant”? I have bad news for you about Santa and the Tooth Fairy… > [@](#): > > That would get a warning, I suspect. Why? Maybe they’re just “ignorant”? Maybe they innocently picked it up hanging out on antisemitic boards, and can be educated out of it? > [@](#): > > You can educate ignorant people, and most racists are ignorant. I’d like to change their mind. You? “Most racists” are hateful bigots, and can’t be educated out of it. Cite me 5 racists who’ve had their minds changed here, and I might think differently. I mean posters who started out posting racist ideas, and now disavow those posts because they were taught better by posters here. Or to put it another way, why should you, an unaffected third party, get to decide that my oppression should make for a lovely teaching moment for some hateful fuck? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/139 "2019-11-28T06:23:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Where, exactly, did he say that? Post #118 ---
**Author:** ![Amara\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7993a0/32.png) [@Amara\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amara_1)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977/140 "2019-11-28T06:53:14Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > LHOD, please add to your list: responding to questions asked in good faith. I’ve seen way too many instances that go like this: > > Poster A: inflammatory statement > Poster B: asks question of A > Poster C: asks question of A > Poster D: asks question of A > > Ten or 20 posts later, Poster A pops up again and doesn’t answer a single one of the questions. It doesn’t make for good debate, and if A then posts another controversial statement, it looks a lot like, well, bad faith arguing, to put it charitably. In the same vein, a poster provides cite A to prove a point (often on climate change/racism etc) and it gets soundly debunked. That poster then pops into a new thread with the same cite. It’s propaganda and not a good faith discussion. I’m another member who isn’t interested in having my equality/humanity up for discussion. This message board doesn’t exist in a vacuum and the view of non-whites as inferior are part of the context where the President of the United States declares white supremacists as fine people. As many others have said, I’m also against moderators trying to mod statements in isolation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disputation-and-the-straight-dope-message-board/843977.md?page=8)