# Dissenting SCOTUS votes on birthright citizenship **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2026, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300 "2026-06-30T15:06:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2026, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/21 "2026-07-01T01:48:07Z")
Do the dissenters believe that the hypothesized Iranian child is not required to follow US lqws? Incidentally, I think status Indians were not considered citizens, until they were. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2026, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/22 "2026-07-01T02:21:57Z")
Yes, the Iranian child is subject to / must follow American laws. Dissenting problem is the child is also subject to other foreign powers and the 14th excludes that situation for birthright citizenship Re: Alito also discusses “Indians”. After the 14th, they were born in the US and subject to its jurisdiction but were not considered citizens. Per the text, Alito asks why not? His answer is because they were subject to a foreign (tribal) power which is consistent with how he thinks it should be. Why apply that standard to Indians but not other foreigners. Again, I don’t agree. It’s all problematic and more nuanced than Alito presents it. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2026, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/23 "2026-07-01T03:15:28Z")
I read online today: 4 out of 9 justices declared the Constitution unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2026, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/24 "2026-07-01T04:38:16Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > > [@CoolHandCox](#): > > > > In Alito’s hypo, he takes an Iranian child born in the US to Iranian parents. > > Huh. I wonder why he chose Iran as an example, instead of, say, Norway or Canada. > > /s Or Italy. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2026, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/25 "2026-07-01T05:38:08Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Dissenting problem is the child is also subject to other foreign powers and the 14th excludes that situation for birthright citizenship That’s nonsense. The amendment has exactly zero words to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2026, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/26 "2026-07-01T12:50:32Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I read online today: 4 out of 9 justices declared the Constitution unconstitutional. This is a good example of the sort of post that would be better in the P&E thread than FQ. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2026, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/27 "2026-07-01T13:24:46Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > - “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” I wonder if that would imply that undocumented immigrants cannot be charged with criminal offenses? Would the dissenting justices agree on that? Plus the implication in the dissent that citizenship equals allegiance. There are plenty of refugees in western countries who are there because of their home governments, and likely feel no allegiance to them. Presumably people who invade a capitol building and try to overthrow the duly elected government are not feeling that warm and fuzzy allegiance. I understood too, the “subject to…” was also to imply that should the USA be invaded, for example, the children of foreign invaders born in occupied territory (i.e. _not_ subject to the jurisdiction) would not be considered citizens. In the middle of a civil war, while France was feeling adventurous in Mexico, this would probably have been a valid concern while writing the amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2026, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/28 "2026-07-02T06:10:30Z")
[And the MAGA crew are taking this decision about as well as one would expect.](https://www.aol.com/articles/maga-outraged-over-birthright-ruling-133714000.html) > [@](#): > > Impeaching judges, sterilizing foreign visitors, dissolving the union – some prominent conservatives suggested extreme measures could be called for in the wake of a [Supreme Court](https://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/supreme-court/) decision [upholding birthright citizenship.](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/06/30/supreme-court-trump-birthright-citizenship/90060950007/) > > The court found that Trump’s executive order last year targeting birthright citizenship is illegal under the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, which states “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.” > > The ruling sparked widespread outrage on the right, which has rallied around[President Donald Trump’s](https://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/donald-trump/) push to restrict the constitutional provision granting automatic citizenship to anyone born in the country. > > Sean Davis, the CEO and co-founder of The Federalist online magazine, [wrote in a social media post](https://x.com/seanmdav/status/2071983931998494799) that there are “several ways forward” after the ruling. Among them: Adding more justices to the Supreme Court and mandating “sterilization of all foreign visitors prior to entry.” > > Davis also mentioned dissolving the union, writing “A nation which can’t even restrict who gets to be a citizen isn’t a nation.” ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2026, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/29 "2026-07-03T18:53:29Z")
AIUI, Alito is an Italian citizen and therefore not a US citizen by his standard. So how can be on the Supreme Court? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2026, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/30 "2026-07-03T18:56:54Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > AIUI, Alito is an Italian citizen He is not a Citizen of Italy. His Dad was an immigrant from Italy, however. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2026, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/31 "2026-07-03T19:01:22Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > AIUI, Alito is an Italian citizen and therefore not a US citizen by his standard. So how can be on the Supreme Court? Does he have to be a citizen to be on the Supreme Court? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2026, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/32 "2026-07-03T19:40:07Z")
No you don’t need to be a citizen, though I’m pretty sure no non-citizens have ever served. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2026, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/33 "2026-07-03T19:46:49Z")
It is clear that some of the current MAGA judges would had discualified some judges from serving. > **[Six Justices Were Foreign-Born, and So Is Canadian-Born Granholm](https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/six_justices_were_foreign_born_and_so_is_canadian-born_granholm)** > > The ABA Journal is read by half of the nation's 1 million lawyers every month. It covers the trends, people and finances of the legal profession from Wall Street to Main Street to Pennsylvania Avenue. > The last foreign-born justice was Felix Frankfurter, born in Austria in 1881, according to the story. He came to New York with his family at the age of 12, not knowing a word of English. Those who opposed him did so because he was liberal or Jewish and did not make an issue of his birthplace, Supreme Court historian Mel Urofsky told the NLJ. “He was very gung-ho about America,” Urofsky said of Frankfurter. > > Five other justices were foreign-born, according to the NLJ. They are James Wilson (born in Scotland in 1742), James Iredell (1751, England), William Paterson (1745, Ireland), David Brewer (1837, Asia Minor, now Turkey), and George Sutherland (1862, England). ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2026, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/34 "2026-07-03T20:09:04Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > > [@hajario](#): > > > > - “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” > > I wonder if that would imply that undocumented immigrants cannot be charged with criminal offenses? Would the dissenting justices agree on that? This has always puzzled me, too. Has this apparent disconnect been discussed by anyone, lawyers, commentators, experts? Has it even been raised by politicians? ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2026, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/35 "2026-07-03T20:58:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > > > AIUI, Alito is an Italian citizen > > He is not a Citizen of Italy. His Dad was an immigrant from Italy, however. How does that not make him an Italian citizen? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2026, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/36 "2026-07-03T21:14:35Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > How does that not make him an Italian citizen? Because Italy changed its law. > **[Italy ruling tells millions with Italian roots they have lost the right to...](https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/14/travel/italy-citizenship-law-restrictions-constitutional-court)** > > Italy’s Constitutional Court has signaled support for a controversial law restricting citizenship by descent, a move that could block millions of people abroad from claiming Italian nationality. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/37 "2026-07-04T00:12:12Z")
wow, “sterilization of all foreign visitors prior to entry.”, that’s going to kill our tourist industry ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/38 "2026-07-04T00:22:32Z")
It “only” brings in around 3 Trillion $. 15 Million jobs. 2.5% of the GDP. Who cares? 🙄 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/39 "2026-07-04T10:39:17Z")
But the law does not abolish citizenship by descent; just confines it to those with a parent or grandparent born in Italy. Alito may still be covered. I think key issue is whether the law makes you a citizen automatically, or merely confers an entitlement to become a citizen, but actual citizenship isn’t conferred until the entitlement is exercised by e.g. registering. If the former, Alito could very well be an Italian citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2026, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300/40 "2026-07-04T13:46:49Z")
[Moderating] Since the factual discussion seems to be giving way to political discussion, and since there’s already a P&E thread on this topic, I’ll just close this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dissenting-scotus-votes-on-birthright-citizenship/1031300.md?page=3)