Do the dissenters believe that the hypothesized Iranian child is not required to follow US lqws?
Incidentally, I think status Indians were not considered citizens, until they were.
Yes, the Iranian child is subject to / must follow American laws. Dissenting problem is the child is also subject to other foreign powers and the 14th excludes that situation for birthright citizenship
Re: Alito also discusses “Indians”. After the 14th, they were born in the US and subject to its jurisdiction but were not considered citizens. Per the text, Alito asks why not? His answer is because they were subject to a foreign (tribal) power which is consistent with how he thinks it should be. Why apply that standard to Indians but not other foreigners.
Again, I don’t agree. It’s all problematic and more nuanced than Alito presents it.
I read online today: 4 out of 9 justices declared the Constitution unconstitutional.
Or Italy.
That’s nonsense. The amendment has exactly zero words to that effect.
This is a good example of the sort of post that would be better in the P&E thread than FQ.
I wonder if that would imply that undocumented immigrants cannot be charged with criminal offenses? Would the dissenting justices agree on that?
Plus the implication in the dissent that citizenship equals allegiance. There are plenty of refugees in western countries who are there because of their home governments, and likely feel no allegiance to them. Presumably people who invade a capitol building and try to overthrow the duly elected government are not feeling that warm and fuzzy allegiance.
I understood too, the “subject to…” was also to imply that should the USA be invaded, for example, the children of foreign invaders born in occupied territory (i.e. not subject to the jurisdiction) would not be considered citizens. In the middle of a civil war, while France was feeling adventurous in Mexico, this would probably have been a valid concern while writing the amendment.
AIUI, Alito is an Italian citizen and therefore not a US citizen by his standard. So how can be on the Supreme Court?
He is not a Citizen of Italy. His Dad was an immigrant from Italy, however.
Does he have to be a citizen to be on the Supreme Court? I don’t think so.
No you don’t need to be a citizen, though I’m pretty sure no non-citizens have ever served.
It is clear that some of the current MAGA judges would had discualified some judges from serving.
The last foreign-born justice was Felix Frankfurter, born in Austria in 1881, according to the story. He came to New York with his family at the age of 12, not knowing a word of English. Those who opposed him did so because he was liberal or Jewish and did not make an issue of his birthplace, Supreme Court historian Mel Urofsky told the NLJ. “He was very gung-ho about America,” Urofsky said of Frankfurter.
Five other justices were foreign-born, according to the NLJ. They are James Wilson (born in Scotland in 1742), James Iredell (1751, England), William Paterson (1745, Ireland), David Brewer (1837, Asia Minor, now Turkey), and George Sutherland (1862, England).
This has always puzzled me, too. Has this apparent disconnect been discussed by anyone, lawyers, commentators, experts? Has it even been raised by politicians?
How does that not make him an Italian citizen?
Because Italy changed its law.
wow, “sterilization of all foreign visitors prior to entry.”, that’s going to kill our tourist industry
It “only” brings in around 3 Trillion $. 15 Million jobs. 2.5% of the GDP. Who cares? 
But the law does not abolish citizenship by descent; just confines it to those with a parent or grandparent born in Italy. Alito may still be covered.
I think key issue is whether the law makes you a citizen automatically, or merely confers an entitlement to become a citizen, but actual citizenship isn’t conferred until the entitlement is exercised by e.g. registering. If the former, Alito could very well be an Italian citizen.
[Moderating]
Since the factual discussion seems to be giving way to political discussion, and since there’s already a P&E thread on this topic, I’ll just close this one.