Distinguish "real" vs. "existent" vs. "actual." Anyone?

**Distinguish “real” vs. “existent” vs. “actual.” **

Wonderful! What a lead-in to discuss semantics.
Remember the famous** Milum’s Maxim** boys and girls?..

** Words have no absolute meaning. Words only have function.**

Now for all of you who have forgotten, this means that in this deterministic universe all descriptions of that which is, have meaning only in terms of an evolutionary aspect of species continuance, nothing more, nothing less.

It is hoped that within this framework, an objective reality and our functional reality will coalesce and we will then know the truth, and the truth will be good and worth knowing.

Uh…sorry, I didn’t do any repeats. Maybe the ghost of Bertrand Arthur William Russell did.

ERISLOVER:

Always glad to see ya. By the way, who’s this “Eris” anyway?

TUSCULAN:

“…In Hegelian parlance, reality is the actualization of the potentional lying dormant within naked, raw existence. Hence reality is higher than existence…”

Though I think I understand the sense in which you’re using “higher,” this is an example of how ambiguity lurks within even simple and common terms. Reality is “higher” than existance, if “higher” means something like “more palpable, more significant, closer to its ultimate perfection”. But in another sense, an entity might be considered to be “higher” if it is more fundamental, more original, that upon which the other depends. In that sense, the potentia are “higher” than the actualia, as there can be potentials without corresponding actuals, but not actuals without corresponding potentials (so it is said…).

MILUM:

“…Words have no absolute meaning. Words only have function…
Now for all of you who have forgotten, this means that in this deterministic universe all descriptions of that which is, have meaning only in terms of an evolutionary aspect of species continuance, nothing more, nothing less…”

A good summary of a reasonable doctrine with which I completely disagree. In Dickersonism (pop. 1 and 1/2), a word does indeed have an absolute meaning: namely the meaning the utterer intends to express in hirs use of the word. The fact that a given UTTERANCE may, in consequence, stand for different words on different occasions …makes the universe more interesting, dunnit?

That utterances have a social (and evolutionary-biological) “function” is quite true. But this may be regarded as derivative of, and parasitic upon, their situations of use: such situational usage being in turn derivative of, and parasitic upon, their (“mentally”) intended meanings.

A “functional” account of language seems to me to have as its subject not words but signs. (Admittedly, careless usage has blurred the distinction.) SIGNS “function;” WORDS “mean.” The first is a matter of effect upon behavior, the second a matter of a certain entity (a “meaning”) being present to the consciousness of the utterer. I realize that the reality of such entities, as well as that which I term “consciousness,” is controversial.

ANYONE:

I tried, in my OP definition of “actual,” to come up with a clear rule of how to explain the property(s) that distinguish the KIND of reality/existence enjoyed by Conan Doyle, from that applicable to Sherlock Holmes and his pipe. As we all seem to recognize that there IS a distinction (whatever term we use to name it), I’d be grateful for a few other stabs at describing that property. By what test can one infallibly determine that an entity is of the one kind and not the other?

You’re right about whether potential or actual is higher or more fundamental; that is precisely the problem with the Aristotelian concept of substance: is it the fundamental matter or the identifiying form? Is a marble statue primarily marble or really the statue? It would seem odd to call Michelangelo’s David ‘really’ matter, since that overlooks the most important aspect of it, to wit the magnificent form of the statue. But for an unformed piece of marble it would be perfectly appropriate to call it marble.

This points to what I suspect is ‘really’ the case: you are looking for an ultimately social distinction. A dollar bill is fundamentally (‘really’?) a printed piece of paper, but normally you’d call it a bill before calling it a piece of paper.

Similarly, what you seem to be hinting at is the difference between fictional and actual/real. Existence is indeed to a certain extent more fundamental in the sense that fiction exists as well. But the way a truly fictional entity exists is still different from the kind of non-palpable, social entity like ‘law’ or ‘the U.S.A.’. These entities are not tangible, but still have a definite kind of existence.

Does this make any sense? I’m not too coherent at present.

With respect to ‘eris’, I’ll leave erislover to explain that. But you might want to read up on your Greek mythology. :slight_smile:

Greek mythology?

Here I thought ERIS was the name of a database!