# Disturbed that Duck Dynasty Phil's \*racism\* is getting overlooked **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 20, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788 "2013-12-20T02:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/61 "2013-12-21T00:23:41Z")
> [@Poto](#): > > Free speech is standing on a soap box in a street corner. A&E is a business. I agree. And as such Mr. Duckman can attempt to exercise his freedom of speech. If his employer says he is not allowed to express his thoughts while employed they he has a choice to make about what is more important to him. What if you weren’t allowed to voice your experience - not opinion - while working for someone? I know what I’d think. I’d Godwinize the whole dang place before I turned in my resignation. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/62 "2013-12-21T00:45:18Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > No. It’s not the best way to go about teaching tolerance. If that is what you truly want to do and not just holler at people. > > You start just the same way as people who fight racism do. You try to understand from their background and experiences why they may be feeling/thinking that way because understanding is the first step to tolerating people as fellow human beings. > > Remember, the goal is to tolerate the person while not tolerating the idea. They are wrong and stubborn while you are correct and righteous. That’s ugly all by itself. Sure man; more power to ya. I might not be such an earnest optimist. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Tanaqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaqui)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/63 "2013-12-21T01:56:05Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > What if you weren’t allowed to voice your experience - not opinion - while working for someone? I know what I’d think. I’d Godwinize the whole dang place before I turned in my resignation. Heh. Yeah! People should be allowed to voice all their opinions, at any time, without any repercussions whatsoever! I know I can’t wait til the pizza delivery boy favors me with his thoughts on Hitler’s policies. When I go to the grocery store, I love to hear about the dangers of fracking. And when I’m checking out a library book, there’s nothing I enjoy more than being told that Jews caused 9-11. That’s what makes America great. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/64 "2013-12-21T02:05:47Z")
> [@Tanaqui](#): > > Yeah! People should be allowed to voice all their opinions, at any time, without any repercussions whatsoever! I know I can’t wait til the pizza delivery boy favors me with his thoughts on Hitler’s policies. When I go to the grocery store, I love to hear about the dangers of fracking. And when I’m checking out a library book, there’s nothing I enjoy more than being told that Jews caused 9-11. That’s what makes America great. What Phil Robertson said was not on the job. If he said anything like that on the show and A&E edited it out, it would be A&E exercising editorial control over the show they own, and fully logical and legitimate. Censoring Phil’s opinions outside of the show by “hiatusing” him is much more problematic. I am glad he and his family are taking the stand they are. And the fact that A&E stands to lose tens if not hundreds of $millions (while Robertsons, with this publicity, are raking it in) is just icing on the cake. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/65 "2013-12-21T02:14:08Z")
People DO have the freedom to say whatever you want. What you do NOT have is the freedom from consequences of saying whatever you want. Phil Robertson got to spout off and show that he’s a homophobic racist. The rest of the world, for the most part, got to show that they think he’s a fucking imbecile for it. Neat how that works, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/66 "2013-12-21T02:20:25Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > People DO have the freedom to say whatever you want. What you do NOT have is the freedom from consequences of saying whatever you want. > > Phil Robertson got to spout off and show that he’s a homophobic racist. The rest of the world, for the most part, got to show that they think he’s a fucking imbecile for it. Neat how that works, eh? Sure. We will see if A&E is ready to lose millions while creating great publicity for Robertsons’ business - all because it objects to Phil’s opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/67 "2013-12-21T02:29:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > One would assume it was worse in the South, there being more Black guys here to serve as victims. Whether hanged in Louisiana or Indiana, you’re still dead because of the color of your skin. There was more racism in the South because there were more black people in the South? You really believe that? Because you say a New York kid flip off a black maid? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/68 "2013-12-21T02:53:21Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Reasons like economics? That’s the reason for the vast majority of migration so why are you sure that in this case it was fear of lynchings? Certainly the fear wasn’t just of lynchings; if, for instance, you forgot to step off the sidewalk to make room for a white person, you’d probably just get beaten up bad enough to send you to the hospital, not that you’d actually go. And given the constraints of life for blacks in the Jim Crow South, it’s hard to separate economics from everything else, when you might get your shop burned down if you do too well. Economics and fear routinely intersected. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/69 "2013-12-21T03:00:49Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > There was more racism in the South because there were more black people in the South? You really believe that? Because you say a New York kid flip off a black maid? Wow. I posted: > [@The intelligent and misquoted Carnivorousplant](#): > > I presume you believe there are more racists in the South than the North. > Perhaps that is true as well. > To elaborate, I believe that\* if \*the only reason were there being more potential victims in the South, there would be more examples of racism. There may very well be more racists in the South. I do not know. I’m not sure what your point is. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/70 "2013-12-21T03:01:37Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > Free speech applies to EVERYBODY equally, not just the people the PC crowd approves of. So where’s my TV show? I’m being denied my freedom of speech!! Did you see them repressing me? That’s what I’ve been going on about! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Seriously, if you want everyone’s POV to be represented more or less equally on the airwaves and cables, then lobby for a return of the long-lost Fairness Doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/71 "2013-12-21T03:03:24Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Certainly the fear wasn’t just of lynchings; if, for instance, you forgot to step off the sidewalk to make room for a white person, you’d probably just get beaten up bad enough to send you to the hospital, not that you’d actually go. And given the constraints of life for blacks in the Jim Crow South, it’s hard to separate economics from everything else, when you might get your shop burned down if you do too well. Economics and fear routinely intersected. I believe you are confusing African Americans in the 20th century South with Jews in fifteenth century Spain. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/72 "2013-12-21T03:03:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Um, the poor white trash (PWT) were not on the bottom, the blacks were. > > There seems to be an odd bit of revisionist history going on with this story, with a lot of people saying that there was some sort of nascent class consciousness and understanding between poor whites and subjugated black people. There weren’t. Your grandfather may have worked in the field with blacks, but if he was a typical man of his generation and location, there is no way he considered them his full equal, and if he did, he was a very rare person for that time and place. Exactly. “Po’ whites” were only a skin’s width from the very bottom of society. A _white_ skin’s width. And that being the case, they were by god going to make sure the blacks stayed lower. Harper Lee caught this perfectly in _To Kill A Mockingbird_. The “decent” white people of Maycomb were horrified and disgusted by Bob Ewell and his virulent racism, and it’s clear, by the end of the trial, that they had greater respect for the Robinsons than for the Ewells. Even the country folks on the jury, one of whom initially was “‘rarin’ for an acquittal”. But in the end, they supported the white man over the black, because race trumped justice. Nevertheless, Maycomb passes judgment on Bob; he’s “trash”: "As you grow older, you’ll see white men cheat black men every day of your life, but let me tell you something and don’t you forget it - whenever a white man does that to a black man, no matter who he is, how rich he is, or how fine a family he comes from, he is trash.” And what does Maycomb’s judgment mean to Bob? It enrages him, to the point of violence; because now he’s lower than a black man. _To Kill A Mockingbird_ is fiction, of course; but it’s autobiographical, and by no means the only example of how lines of class mingled with lines of race in the Jim Crow South. I once found a bit of doggerel from that era, in a 1930’s collection of Southern folklore: _My name is Ran, I wuks de san’, but I’d ruther be a nigger than a po’ white man._ For my own part, I can remember my Grandmother - born in 1901 in North Carolina and every inch a _grande dame_ - absolutely _hated_ the N-word. Not because it was hateful, but because it was “common” - her greatest pejorative. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/73 "2013-12-21T03:13:42Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > For my own part, I can remember my Grandmother - born in 1901 in North Carolina and every inch a _grande dame_ - absolutely _hated_ the N-word. Not because it was hateful, but because it was “common” - her greatest pejorative. Shades of Atticus Finch. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/74 "2013-12-21T03:14:10Z")
A&E shouldn’t have suspended the guy. White trash need entertainment too. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/75 "2013-12-21T03:20:05Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > A&E shouldn’t have suspended the guy. White trash need entertainment too. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/76 "2013-12-21T03:24:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I said > I presume you believe there are more racists in the South than the North. > Perhaps that is true as well. I make no assumptions here about that. However, the _consequences to blacks_ of white racism in the North were considerably less. You got stuck with shit jobs, but it was a better class of shit jobs than in the South. If you were able, you could start your own business, and you weren’t likely to have it burned down simply because you did well. You didn’t have to step off the sidewalk every time a white person came along. If you stayed home on Saturday, you didn’t get paid for Saturday, but the overseer of the white man you worked for wasn’t going to come to your door and tell you to get into his field or else. The violence from whites was more episodic in the North; in the South, violence and the threat of violence were omnipresent and continual. > [@](#): > > To elaborate, I believe that \*if \*the only reason were there being more potential victims in the South, there would be more examples of racism. Your display of logic overwhelms me. What can I say? > [@](#): > > I recall driving through Memphis when I was a kid. Another kid was leaning out of a station wagon with New York or New Jersey plates, giving the finger to a Black woman in a maid uniform walking down the street. Why in the hell did he do that? It’s easy to hate people because one or a few of a group does something to you, or you think they are dumb or funny looking. > There’s no telling why people are racist, I just think there are some everywhere. Wow, there are racists in/from the North. Who knew? Basically, you have no point that you are willing to defend. You’re painting a picture of a world where there was racism in the North and in the South, there were lynchings in the North and in the South, potato, potahto. But you’re not willing to actually say it in so many words. So all this stuff you’ve been saying, that you’ve been investing with the apparent appearance of meaning, means nothing. But don’t worry, I’ll always think of you as “The Intelligent and Witty Carnivorousplant.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/77 "2013-12-21T03:27:25Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > Free speech applies to EVERYBODY equally, not just the people the PC crowd approves of. Indeed, it applies to everyone, including A&E. Not sure why you consider yourself PC here, but your attitude of denying free speech to A&E is pretty terrible. As for the idea that he was off the job, I call shenanigans. GQ wasn’t conducting a man-on-the-street interview; they were interviewing the star of a television show. When you’re the star of a show participating in a media campaign, the act of participating in the campaign is part of your job. If he said these things to the dude at the grocery store, that’d be different, and maybe I’d feel a teeny bit different (although I’d still respect A&E’s first amendment rights). But he wasn’t mouthing off to his cashier, or to some random asshole at a bar: he was speaking to a reporter in an interview made possible by his job at A&E. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/78 "2013-12-21T03:27:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe you are confusing African Americans in the 20th century South with Jews in fifteenth century Spain. 🙂 I’d recommend Isabel Wilkerson’s _The Warmth of Other Suns_. Nonfiction, won quite a few awards. Might clear up _your_ confusion. Also, I don’t know shit about fifteenth-century Spain (other than Ferdinand, Isabella, and Christopher Columbus), so it’s hard for me to confuse anything with it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/79 "2013-12-21T03:39:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’d recommend Isabel Wilkerson’s _The Warmth of Other Suns_. Nonfiction, won quite a few awards. Might clear up _your_ confusion. > > Also, I don’t know shit about fifteenth-century Spain (other than Ferdinand, Isabella, and Christopher Columbus), so it’s hard for me to confuse anything with it. Having kicked the Muslims and Jews out of Spain, Ferdinand and Isabella felt safe enough to finance Christopher Columbus. Under Muslim rule in Spain, Jews had to wear identifying clothing and step off the side walk for Muslims. Shame on you for using a Groucho Mark moniker and being so ugly! 🙂 I admit it, we Southerners are moronic, Neanderthal, Low Browed racists who hate everyone who isn’t exactly like us, and wake up in the morning making a list of folks we will hang. Are you happy now, Rufus? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788/80 "2013-12-21T04:11:16Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I admit it, we Southerners are moronic, Neanderthal, Low Browed racists who hate everyone who isn’t exactly like us, and wake up in the morning making a list of folks we will hang. > Are you happy now, Rufus? 🙂 Ferchrissakes, I’m a southerner born and raised, and I think you’re being ridiculous here. If someone suggests that things were only bad for black folk in the South, they’re being dumb–but nobody’s suggesting that. Instead, the point being made is that certain areas of the country were far worse for black folk than others, and Louisiana was among the very, very worst. Yes, there were bad racist people in Maine, but the cultural and legal racism were so, so much worse in the south. I can’t figure out whether you doubt this–your posts about numbers of black people in different regions don’t really help to clarify what you’re saying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbed-that-duck-dynasty-phils-racism-is-getting-overlooked/676788.md?page=5)