# Disturbingly well-done Egyptian ultraconservative rape PSA **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 11, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077 "2010-05-11T18:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/1 "2010-05-11T18:24:18Z")
P.Z. Myers’ blog, Pharyngula, has posted a really loathesome public-safety advert from Egypt - it’s meant to advise women that the best way to prevent rape is to dress modestly, thus ensuring that men (us helpless beasts) won’t be inspired to rape them. Nasty. (The advert, not the blog). [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/who\_are\_you\_calling\_a\_fly.php](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/who_are_you_calling_a_fly.php) Something I hadn’t expected, though - this is actually a really, really well-designed poster. I think so, anyway - perhaps the Dope’s resident graphics wonks could weigh in. But I think the two panels with the green and orange tone are visually striking, as is the lollipop - and the flies are detailed and unpleasant. It’s a smart, slightly amusing, and memorable advertisement for an utterly abhorent idea. That makes it interesting to me, as we normally expect such things to be much, much less slick. No real point here - I was just a bit creeped out by the fact that folks with such backwards social views are nonetheless talented propagandists, and wanted to share the discomfort. Enjoy! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/2 "2010-05-11T18:41:14Z")
That second lollipop is getting gang-raped, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/3 "2010-05-11T20:01:32Z")
What does the text say? The poster _does_ make me crave a Tootsie Pop. Maybe I’ll go commit rape to take my mind off it. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/4 "2010-05-11T20:05:34Z")
_shudder_ For those of you not interested in clicking the link, the poster shows two lollipops. The one on the left is wrapped in plastic. There is a fly circling it. The one of the right is unwrapped. There are multiple flies which have landed on it (and as Bricker said, gang-raping it). Aside from the horrific misogyny _and_ misandry, there are clearly some logical problems with the analogy. What if the lollipop were wearing transparent plastic? It would keep the flies off, but flaunt all the candy goodness to everyone with eyes, and how is that modest? What if it’s a Tootsie Pop? Is it rape if they don’t make it to the chewy center? And what if the flies are diabetic? Not only has the whorish lollipop brought them to their moral doom, but she also raised their blood sugar while she was it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/5 "2010-05-11T20:11:22Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Aside from the horrific misogyny _and_ misandry, there are clearly some logical problems with the analogy. What if the lollipop were wearing transparent plastic? It would keep the flies off, but flaunt all the candy goodness to everyone with eyes, and how is that modest? Ah, but men have opposable thumbs and can peel the wrapping off a woman, while flies can’t peel the wrapping off candy. Clearly, thumbs are evil. Tools of Sin. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/6 "2010-05-11T20:11:55Z")
I don’t know what’s abhorrent about the idea. We have public safety advertisements all the time about how to make yourself a less attractive target for criminals. Walk in a group. Don’t flash money around in public. Keep your wallet in your front pocket instead of your back. Don’t talk on your phone in the parking lot. I don’t particularly AGREE with the Egyptian poster, but what’s abhorrent about it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/7 "2010-05-11T20:13:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, but men have opposable thumbs and can peel the wrapping off a woman, while flies can’t peel the wrapping off candy. > > Clearly, thumbs are evil. Tools of Sin. Tools of sin that will lead us into temptation. The only logical solution is the forceful application of hammers to thumbs, in order to remove that temptation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/8 "2010-05-11T20:16:52Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I don’t know what’s abhorrent about the idea. We have public safety advertisements all the time about how to make yourself a less attractive target for criminals. Walk in a group. Don’t flash money around in public. Keep your wallet in your front pocket instead of your back. Don’t talk on your phone in the parking lot. I don’t particularly AGREE with the Egyptian poster, but what’s abhorrent about it? It suggests that women who dress immodestly to are to blame for their own rape. A more useful message might be that rape is _never_ excusible, that men are not flies, and that we’re responsible for not raping women. Context matters here also - harsh social and legal restrictions on women are common in the Middle East, in the name of “protecting” them from men (who, presumably, would rape them absent these extreme “protective” measures). I should note, in fairness, that women do much better in terms of social and political equality in Egypt than in, say, Saudi Arabia - but this sort of thinking doesn’t help bridge the remaining, substantial gap. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/9 "2010-05-11T20:26:59Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I don’t know what’s abhorrent about the idea. We have public safety advertisements all the time about how to make yourself a less attractive target for criminals. Walk in a group. Don’t flash money around in public. Keep your wallet in your front pocket instead of your back. Don’t talk on your phone in the parking lot. I don’t particularly AGREE with the Egyptian poster, but what’s abhorrent about it? Because it presumes that women who are not showing skin are less “rape-able.” I somehow doubt that not showing skin will make them a less attractive/convenient/vulnerable target for rape, considering that even elderly women get raped. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/10 "2010-05-11T20:27:15Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > It suggests that women who dress immodestly to are to blame for their own rape. A more useful message might be that rape is _never_ excusible, that men are not flies, and that we’re responsible for not raping women. Not to mention suggesting that women who dress “modestly” won’t get raped. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/11 "2010-05-11T20:30:04Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I don’t know what’s abhorrent about the idea. We have public safety advertisements all the time about how to make yourself a less attractive target for criminals. Walk in a group. Don’t flash money around in public. Keep your wallet in your front pocket instead of your back. Don’t talk on your phone in the parking lot. I don’t particularly AGREE with the Egyptian poster, but what’s abhorrent about it? The fact that women aren’t objects that can be wrapped up to keep safely? Hey, I’d love to be able to take my genitals out and keep them in a safe place when I’m out late and don’t want to be raped, as Wanda Sykes alluded to in a comedy routine, but I can’t. And since there’s no evidence that wrapping yourself up protects against sexual assault (and who decides what “covered up” is–is it a burqa? is it a leather jacket? is it a tank top?), it’s a stupid ad. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/12 "2010-05-11T20:41:55Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > The fact that women aren’t objects that can be wrapped up to keep safely? Hey, I’d love to be able to take my genitals out and keep them in a safe place when I’m out late and don’t want to be raped, as Wanda Sykes alluded to in a comedy routine, but I can’t. And since there’s no evidence that wrapping yourself up protects against sexual assault (and who decides what “covered up” is–is it a burqa? is it a leather jacket? is it a tank top?), it’s a stupid ad. Sure, it’s stupid. But abhorrent? I don’t see a message of blame in that poster, just a public safety advertisement that is probably not effective. It’s not any more abhorrent than the fallout shelter advertisements of the 50s. ---
**Author:** ![may\_be\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@may\_be\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/may_be_ignorant)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/13 "2010-05-11T21:04:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, but men have opposable thumbs and can peel the wrapping off a woman, while flies can’t peel the wrapping off candy. > > Clearly, thumbs are evil. Tools of Sin. Finally, someone understands. Join my cult, and cut off your thumbs with me. > [@](#): > > Tools of sin that will lead us into temptation. The only logical solution is the forceful application of hammers to thumbs, in order to remove that temptation. You too, but I mean business. I have bolt cutters. As compensation, we’ll give our severed thumbs to rape victims. This will make the world turn once more. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/14 "2010-05-11T21:05:53Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Sure, it’s stupid. But abhorrent? I don’t see a message of blame in that poster, just a public safety advertisement that is probably not effective. It’s not any more abhorrent than the fallout shelter advertisements of the 50s. Did the American fallout shelter posters of that era advise that black people could better tolerate radiation than whites, and so the best thing for all concerned would be to give them lowest-priority access to shelters? That’s a better comparison to this case, I think. This is _nominally_ just a PSA, but it ties into and reinforces some very unpleasant cultural views about women and men - that a woman who is not conservatively garbed is “fair game” for rape, and that men can scarcely be blamed for taking advantage. That’s what makes this poster abhorrent - it reinforces the idea that conservatism and inequality are institutions that protect women, who require protection from the wicked world fo men. And, of course, these institutions are needed to protect men from their own base impulses. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/15 "2010-05-11T21:07:10Z")
> [@may\_be\_ignorant](#): > > Finally, someone understands. Join my cult, and cut off your thumbs with me. > > You too, but I mean business. I have bolt cutters. As compensation, we’ll give our severed thumbs to rape victims. This will make the world turn once more. Sadly, **Der Trihs** and I weren’t joking. There are folks who truly think like this. [Female genital mutilation - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting) ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/16 "2010-05-11T21:23:51Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > That’s a better comparison to this case, I think. This is _nominally_ just a PSA, but it ties into and reinforces some very unpleasant cultural views about women and men - that a woman who is not conservatively garbed is “fair game” for rape, and that men can scarcely be blamed for taking advantage. That’s what makes this poster abhorrent - it reinforces the idea that conservatism and inequality are institutions that protect women, who require protection from the wicked world fo men. And, of course, these institutions are needed to protect men from their own base impulses. :rolleyes: Thank you. Another online community in which I participate went through an explosion of wank over the weekend regarding precisely this issue, and I am really on edge about this sort of thing at the moment. This ad is abhorrent because it implies that the onus for not being victimized is upon women, and that if a woman is attacked, it’s because _she_ did something wrong, and that it is in some way her fault. This is an _extremely_ prevalent idea, even here in the “enlightened” West, where women have more agency than they do in Egypt. This ad is incredibly offensive to both women and men. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/17 "2010-05-11T23:43:50Z")
This may be a stupid question, but in that culture, are “immodestly” dressed women more likely to be assaulted? While I find the notion that a woman is somehow responsible for “getting herself raped” absolutely repugnant, I am coming from a Western viewpoint. Are there men in that or similarly repressive cultures who might decide to assault a woman based on her clothing? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/18 "2010-05-11T23:47:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Ah, but men have opposable thumbs and can peel the wrapping off a woman, while flies can’t peel the wrapping off candy. > > Clearly, thumbs are evil. Tools of Sin. That’s why we call it _evil_ution! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/19 "2010-05-11T23:52:57Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > This may be a stupid question, but in that culture, are “immodestly” dressed women more likely to be assaulted? While I find the notion that a woman is somehow responsible for “getting herself raped” absolutely repugnant, I am coming from a Western viewpoint. Are there men in that or similarly repressive cultures who might decide to assault a woman based on her clothing? There are some interesting [accounts from the BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7593765.stm#noha) and a [report from Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1732581120080717?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a49:g43:r1:c1.000000:b30791782:z0)on the topic of harassment and assault. 98 percent of foreign women had experienced harassment there. Nearly half of Egyptian women said they were harassed daily. > [@](#): > > Some 53 percent of men blamed women for bringing on sexual harassment, saying they enjoyed it or were dressed in a way deemed indecent. Some women agreed. > > “Out of Egyptian women and men interviewed, most believe that women who wear tight clothes deserve to be harassed,” the survey said. It added most agreed women should be home by 8 p.m. > > The survey said most of the Egyptian women who told of being harassed said they were dressed conservatively, with the majority wearing the Islamic headscarf. The harassment took place on the streets or on public transport, as well as in tourist destinations and foreign educational institutions. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077/20 "2010-05-12T00:39:24Z")
I think if in your society, an “immodest” woman is license for molestation, you need to take a good, long hard look at your community and try to change it because something is deeply broken. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/disturbingly-well-done-egyptian-ultraconservative-rape-psa/539077.md?page=2)