# Divorce, US Army style **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255 "2012-09-20T13:28:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/21 "2012-09-21T01:41:21Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Despite the old adage “don’t shit where you eat” many relationships happen with those you are close with. Look at this case. The soldier is having an affair with another soldier. It has nothing to do with a puritan attitude. It has to do with order and discipline. Nothing can destroy a units cohesion fasting than letting that soap opera shit happen. So is the law against infidelity or having sex with a workmate? ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/22 "2012-09-21T01:59:11Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > So is the law against infidelity or having sex with a workmate? Adultery. But simple adultery isn’t enough. It has to be something that will either impact the ability of the adulterer to perform their duties, or otherwise affect the unit or the service in general. PFC having a drunken one night stand with a civilian? Unlikely to be prosecuted. Brigadier General having multiple affairs, over many years, with officers under their direct command, with some sort of coercive sexual harassment (sex for positive reviews), that becomes public and is widely covered by the press? You betcha that’ll be prosecuted. [This](http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm1342.htm) is a pretty good overview. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/23 "2012-09-21T02:05:31Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > This is not legal advice, but if i were her, I would move back to Texas and file for a divorce there. Tell the SIL that if he has any issues with that, or if he plans to fight custody or prevent her from moving to Texas, she will go to his commander to report the infidelity. That should be enough to get him on board with whatever she wants to do as far as the kids are concerned. She holds all the cards. IANAL, but it strikes me that threatening to report someone for a criminal offense unless they give you something of value (in this case uncontested custody) is pretty much the textbook definition of blackmail – a felony. I’d be very careful following this advice. ---
**Author:** ![core\_dump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@core\_dump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/core_dump)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/24 "2012-09-21T02:15:08Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > Adultery. But simple adultery isn’t enough. It has to be something that will either impact the ability of the adulterer to perform their duties, or otherwise affect the unit or the service in general. PFC having a drunken one night stand with a civilian? Unlikely to be prosecuted. Brigadier General having multiple affairs, over many years, with officers under their direct command, with some sort of coercive sexual harassment (sex for positive reviews), that becomes public and is widely covered by the press? You betcha that’ll be prosecuted. But if the person responsible isn’t married then all of this behavior is suddenly fine? Well maybe not fine, but no longer the same offense. I’m not really following the logic here. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/25 "2012-09-21T03:43:55Z")
Just for the record, in my son-in-law’s case, the alleged infidelity is taking place between two soldiers of similar rank. The woman is a couple of years younger and is also an MP in his platoon. I believe they are of similar, if not identical rank. The evidence of infidelity includes thousands (seriously) of text messages sent over the past couple of months. That part is provable. According to my daughter, the text of the text messages is along the lines of “I love you” and “you make me so happy”. This, of course, is not provable. My daughter has said that she knows of other women who have gone to their husbands’ commands with similar problems and nothing ever comes of it. Is this kind of thing really the sort of thing that the Army would be interested in chasing down? Is there any advantage to my daughter in pursuing it? Truthfully, I never really liked the guy. Over time, I grew to tolerate him, even taking him to football games and stuff. Now, I’ll be glad to be rid of him, though our grandson complicates matters. I am hopeful that this will be a growing and learning experience for my daughter and she will come out of it a stronger, wiser person. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/26 "2012-09-21T03:52:36Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > That’s just SILly. > > DO military courts do anything civil, or strictly military code / criminal code offenses? No, but it’s my understanding that JAG officers can provide servicemembers with assistance with things like writing wills or arranging power of attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/27 "2012-09-21T07:39:48Z")
> [@sisu](#): > > Wait,what? Really this seems bizarre is it really true that that the USMJ has a law against infidelity? When did the fundies take over the armed forces? It’s not “from when the fundies took over”, it’s “from before infidelity was taken out of civil codes”. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/28 "2012-09-21T13:31:31Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > Just for the record, in my son-in-law’s case, the alleged infidelity is taking place between two soldiers of similar rank. The woman is a couple of years younger and is also an MP in his platoon. I believe they are of similar, if not identical rank. > > The evidence of infidelity includes thousands (seriously) of text messages sent over the past couple of months. That part is provable. According to my daughter, the text of the text messages is along the lines of “I love you” and “you make me so happy”. This, of course, is not provable. My daughter has said that she knows of other women who have gone to their husbands’ commands with similar problems and nothing ever comes of it. Is this kind of thing really the sort of thing that the Army would be interested in chasing down? Is there any advantage to my daughter in pursuing it? > > Truthfully, I never really liked the guy. Over time, I grew to tolerate him, even taking him to football games and stuff. Now, I’ll be glad to be rid of him, though our grandson complicates matters. I am hopeful that this will be a growing and learning experience for my daughter and she will come out of it a stronger, wiser person. Well she could push it higher and higher until it gets attention. He may not get court martialed but just non judicial punishment. Since we are currently in a large draw down they are chaptering out soldiers with article 15s left and right. So he is now in a job in which they will force him to pay child support with an allotment from his check every month. Pushing the adultery change could get him fired and unemployed. I’m not sure what kind of advantage that will give her but at least she’ll have revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/29 "2012-09-21T15:32:15Z")
Attempting to ruin the career of the person you expect to pay you child support doesn’t seem very wise. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/30 "2012-09-21T16:19:12Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Attempting to ruin the career of the person you expect to pay you child support doesn’t seem very wise. This. There’s no advantage to revenge. If SIL isn’t causing trouble with the divorce, a clean break with future child visitation is best for all concerned, especially as there isn’t much in the way of property or assets to squabble over. If SIL _is_ causing trouble, then she might consider other options. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/31 "2012-09-21T16:27:28Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Despite the old adage “don’t shit where you eat” many relationships happen with those you are close with. Look at this case. The soldier is having an affair with another soldier. It has nothing to do with a puritan attitude. It has to do with order and discipline. Nothing can destroy a units cohesion fasting than letting that soap opera shit happen. Isn’t this essentially the same argument that’s been made against gay people being in the military, that it would effect unitary cohesion? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/32 "2012-09-21T17:08:34Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Isn’t this essentially the same argument that’s been made against gay people being in the military, that it would effect unitary cohesion? I was in the Navy when it was only us guys on a carrier, so I can’t speak much about workplace romances in the military. However, working in a civilian job afterwards, I knew an office manager was sleeping with at least two of her subordinates over the course of a three year period. (The positions the subordinates filled was minimum wage/hourly, and had a moderate turn over rate in terms of employment duration.) There was snickering gossip, jealousy, and accusations of favoritism at various times because of it. It’s amazing how many adults… aren’t. While work got done, at various times morale was impacted negatively. I can’t see why it would be any different while in the military. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/33 "2012-09-21T17:25:16Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > .. > > There was snickering gossip, jealousy, and accusations of favoritism at various times because of it. It’s amazing how many adults… aren’t. > > … My wife managed a fast-food restaurant for a while. Even without the distraction of any office romances, the interpresonal issues were bad. And… the worst teenagers were the 40-year-old ones. But yes, why screw over the guy you want to provide child support? Just cut your losses and leave, if he’s a royal dick his son will figure it out sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/34 "2012-09-21T19:59:57Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > However, working in a civilian job afterwards, I knew an office manager was sleeping with at least two of her subordinates over the course of a three year period. (The positions the subordinates filled was minimum wage/hourly, and had a moderate turn over rate in terms of employment duration.) It may have been minimum wage, but the fringe benefits sound good. Is she hiring? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/35 "2012-09-21T21:05:31Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > It may have been minimum wage, but the fringe benefits sound good. Is she hiring? 😃 That branch office got closed. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/36 "2012-09-22T02:10:35Z")
Going back to the OP, and jurisdictions: I was stationed in Hawaii, soon-to-be-ex was living in Iowa. I filed, the court sent her copies of the paperwork. There were some delays caused by the need to sign more papers, which always came up when I was at sea, so they had to wait until I was back in port. Then the courthouse somehow lost all the paperwork, and since they insisted on having original papers, with original signatures - copies wouldn’t suffice - there was another delay while I signed everything again and the lawyer resubmitted it. A few months after that, I transferred to Scotland. The matter finally went before the judge in Hawaii about two months after I arrived in Scotland, he signed off on it, and I was a free man again. No actual involvement by the Navy at all. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/37 "2012-09-22T02:31:33Z")
> [@core\_dump](#): > > But if the person responsible isn’t married then all of this behavior is suddenly fine? Well maybe not fine, but no longer the same offense. I’m not really following the logic here. Section 134 (which is where the adultery bit comes from) includes a lot of stuff. There aren’t actually that many sexually related offenses. Most 134 offenses fall into two categories, serious crime, or crimes that “bring discredit upon the armed forces.” Adultery falls under the later. Just like the military will imprison you and then kick you out for not paying your debts. Not because it is some horrific crime, but because it impunes the honor of the military. It isn’t the sex that makes adultery an offense, although that is probably a factor. It is the breaking of an oath. Perjury and wearing an unauthorized insignia, also are treated vastly more seriously than in civilian courts. ---
**Author:** ![Mac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Mac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/38 "2012-09-22T03:04:33Z")
Drum God, I was in an almost exactly the same situation 2 years ago. My daughter is now divorced from a former military member (Air Force). There were also allegations of adultery. She filed for her divorce in Texas while he was still on active duty and stationed in California. In my daughters case she had established residency in Texas with the children for over a year. Him being in the military will not affect custody or child support that all goes by state law. Pushing the UCMJ adultery charges can only make things worse. If he gets kicked out of the military the children could have no health benefits. Also as a 20 vet of the Air Force myself, I have seen many divorces and I can tell you without a doubt the military will not represent either the spouse or the military member. At best they will direct them to a civilian lawyer. ``` Mac (lurker since 1999) ``` ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/39 "2012-09-22T03:39:54Z")
As others have noted, in this particular circumstance, if she pushes the adultery issue with the military she gains little if anything and stands to lose a great deal in terms both of his ability to make CS payments if he is demoted or released, and military medical coverage benefits which can a be pretty big deal for a young single mother with child. She needs to think about this strategically. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255/40 "2012-09-22T04:46:45Z")
I thought that Lawrence v. Texas taught us that private sexual conduct was untouchable by the government…Was Kennedy wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/divorce-us-army-style/635255.md?page=3)