Allow me to help you with your uninformed opinion of the nature of public discourse.
People are allowed to have uninformed opinions – most opinions start out that way. On a public discussion board, people with differing levels of knowledge of a subject set forth their opinions. Some people know more than others, some express themselves more powerfully and concisely than others, some people reason more logically than others. On a good discussion board, where people who are well-informed, etc. post, you get a general illuminating effect, as people learn from the better posts.
There’s also the Asshat Theory of discourse, in which intellectual paladins display their brilliance for the admiring masses who must be smacked down ruthlessly if they violate the sanctity of the paladins’ stage with uninformed opinions. I’m sure no one on the SMDB subscribes to that theory.
I was going to embark on a rant here, but Payton’s Servant has done the job for me. i hope he doesn’t mind me quoting his excellent post; maybe it will succeed in drawing your attention to it more closely.
It is of as much value as yours, and given the effort he has made on this issue, I’d say that it is worth a good deal more. How about you provide an actual argument against what he says rather than fly-by with an attack on his personality?
Achtung Baby was a great album, easily equal to the Joshua Tree. It was the sound of a band in its prime, not afraid to try new things, to head in new directions or to risk the ire of their fans to make the art they wanted to make. Zooropa was a great electro-pop album, though not a great U2 album. If you appreciate the former, as I do, it cannot be faulted. Even listening to it in terms of it being a U2 album, it exhibits some treats. Stay (Faraway, So Close) is a beautiful song, The Wanderer is an excellent use of a guest vocalist and The First Time is a great Bono meditation on his religious beliefs, not to mention the haunting piano and his usual, impeccable vocal delivery.
Pop was not a great album; it suffered too much from U2 trying to become a dance act, but remain U2. As such, the album lacked focus. All That You Can’t Leave Behind was similarly flawed, but this time they tried too hard to be U2 and forgot about writing songs.
Despite this, both albums do have some fine songs and cannot be dismissed as bad. They were flawed, that is all.
(Isn’t it nice to get some musical discussion back into a Cafe Society thread?)
However, if the man does not live up to the standards of the office, he cannot expect to benefit from any respect accorded to the office. Bush is a disgrace as a US President, and doesn’t deserve the respect that office deserves. I supported what the Dixie Chicks originally said, but I am disappointed that they did not have the guts to stand by their original statement.
If I was a Texan, I would be ashamed that Bush came from the same state as myself.
Ordinary people can do whatever the hell they want. My issue is with ClearChannel, who banned the DCs for their own agenda. The media, which include ClearChannel stations, as one of the traditional proponents of free speech should not refuse to give voice to anyone reasonably exercising that liberty. Of course, they are not legally obliged to, but they do have a responsibility to.
When would have been the appropriate time for the Dixie Chicks to speak out, six months from now? A year from now? I can’t think of a more appropriate time for the Chicks to have made the remarks that they did.
You’re confusing an entertainment company with a public opinion forum. If ClearChannel’s costumers don’t want the Dixie Chicks, why should it play them? I’ve heard this falacious argument an awful lot: If you don’t subsidize my speech, it’s censorship.
Except judging by album sales you can’t really say that ClearChannel’s customers don’t want the Dixie Chicks. Only a very loud minority. I would assume a radio station is eager to attract the most listeners as possible.
I think that the poster’s point was not that the Dixie Chicks should have waited until after the war to make those comments; rather, they should have made those comments in the U.S., and taken the heat for it and stood firm. Natalie Maines made that comment in England when she was pretty sure that she would be applauded for it. Then, when word got back to the U.S. and the hoopla started, she apologized and tried to say she didn’t mean it.
She should have thought really, really hard about her opinion and couched her objections to the war a bit more diplomatically. And done it in the U.S.
First of all, I am sickened by the number of people on this thread calling Natalie fat, which apparently is supposed to be some lameass way of discrediting her. The girl could not possibly weigh more than 140 pounds, especially considering she is constantly photographed next to two stick-thin women. It reminds me of when Courtney Thorne-Smith went anorexic on Ally McBeal because she said she looked fat when compared to Calista Flockhart and Lucy Liu. For Christ’s sake, people, have some perspective. And even if she weighs 200 pounds, fuck you all anyway. Fascist body-nazis.
And secondly, the Dixie Chick fans are no longer just Dollywood pilgrims, as was stated earlier. The DCs have a huge audience ranging from country to pop to bluegrass. They are amazing musicians who earned their audience through years of hard work.
If I can forgive Madonna for wearing an American flag on MTV, and if I can forgive Mick Jagger for having illegitimte children, and if I can forgive Hugh Grant, Rob Lowe, and Robert Downey Jr. for their indiscretions, I can forgive Natalie. She’s young, idealistic, and I personally think she simply didn’t understand the ramifications of her words.
One more thing, the woman’s name was Lorena Bobbitt, not Loretta. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to say that Goodbye Earl is an homage to Lorena Bobbitt. That’s like saying Garth Brooks’ Mama’s in the Graveyard is about O.J. Simpson.
djbdjb: Sometime try listening to:
“Run for Your Life” by the Beatles
“Hey Joe” a traditional blues song. The most famous version is by Jimi Hendrix.
“CC Rider (“I’m going to get me a shotgun as long as I am tall/'Cause if I can’t have you, baby, no one can have you at all”)” However, this song or variants thereof has been covered by both male and female artists.
You might also review a collection of traditional ballads or read Sharyn McCrumbs Ballad novels, and you will find any number of traditional songs that refer to men murdering women.
I like “Goodbye Earl” and the Dixie Chicks, tho’ I find Ms. Maines’ comments to be muddled and stupid.
I respect the Dixie Chicks SO MUCH more than the people who are trying to restrict their right to free speech. Plus, they are all, including Natalie, really good lookin’ without clothes on. Eat your hearts out, conservatives.
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