# DNC Cartoon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 18, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589 "2003-06-18T00:49:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/61 "2003-06-19T14:08:09Z")
**has repeatedly demonstrated their willingness to lie** “I … did not have … sexual relations … with that woman …” **spread unfounded innuendos** Such as? **steal elections** If you don’t understand how the electoral college works by now you probaby can’t be helped. **make blowjobs a topic of political discourse** The issue was perjury, not getting his dick sucked. **but damned if I think the Dems should let themselves be pushed into political irrelevance** The Dems ARE becoming politically irrelevant. Ya know why? They have no ideas. The only thing they are capable of doing now is shooting down anything the Republicans come up with and making silly cartoons. Maybe if they actually used their brains and tried to come up with, oh, a vision, they wouldn’t get their asses kicked on election day. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/62 "2003-06-19T14:45:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*Gee, **minty** , thanks for clearing up what is inhuman and what is kind, caring, and compassionate. > > Hurting the feelings of a convicted murderer is inhumane and horrible. Death threats when you lose a case are fine. > > :rolleyes: > > Regards, > Shodan \*\* What are you blathering about ? Minty made no death threat. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/63 "2003-06-19T15:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > “I … did not have … sexual relations … with that woman …” Yes, Clinton lied about his sex life (although I know women who don’t count men they’ve done anything short of sexual intercourse with in their “count” of men they’ve had sex with). That’s a bad feature in a lover or potential lover. I happen to consider lying (pretty much compulsively) about public policy matters to be a little bit of a worse feature in a President. > [@](#): > > If you don’t understand how the electoral college works by now you probaby can’t be helped. We don’t need to get off on this tangent, but go see the thread titled “Hey…how do pro-democrats on the SDMB feel about this” or go to [www.gregpallast.com](http://www.gregpallast.com) > [@](#): > > The Dems ARE becoming politically irrelevant. Ya know why? They have no ideas. The only thing they are capable of doing now is shooting down anything the Republicans come up with and making silly cartoons. Maybe if they actually used their brains and tried to come up with, oh, a vision, they wouldn’t get their asses kicked on election day. On this point, I agree with you somewhat. The Dems need to articulate a positive vision. Of course, I happen to think that just not destroying environmental protection, not cutting whatever small vestiges we have of progressive taxation, not bankrupting the government, and not curtailing civil liberties are more than good enough reasons to vote Democratic. But, the American public does seem to want to hear a more positive message. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/64 "2003-06-19T15:59:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Captor \* > \*\*Your words would make sense if they were not spoken on behalf of a party that has repeatedly demonstrated their willingness to lie, spread unfounded innuendos, steal elections, make blowjobs a topic of political discourse, and otherwise act like total assholes, a strategy that has clearly worked well for them. I’m not pleased to find the fight sunk to this level, but damned if I think the Dems should let themselves be pushed into political irrelevance because they won’t fight the good fight if it means they have to get in the mud with their opponent. \*\* I’m not entirely happy with the Repulican party at the moment, but the Democrats aren’t any better, IMHO. Most politicians lie and spread unfounded innuendos. I’m quite sure that at some point in the history of the United States, a democrat has stolen an election. And let’s face it…if it had been a Republican president who had claimed not to have sexual relations with an intern when he in fact did and had lied about it in front of a grand jury, the Democrats would have pursued it just as strongly. As for the asshole comment, it is my humble opinion that the assholes in politics are not separated from the non-assholes by a party line. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/65 "2003-06-19T16:02:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > Gee, **minty** , thanks for clearing up what is inhuman and what is kind, caring, and compassionate. > > Hurting the feelings of a convicted murderer is inhumane and horrible. Death threats when you lose a case are fine. > > :rolleyes: Color me also completely confused here, **Shodan**. You seem to have lost the distinction between feelings and actions. If **minty** actually did what he said or threatened to do what he said, I would be the first to condemn him. However, such is not the case. Bush **actually did** mock a woman’s plea for clemency. Even if the woman is evil incarnate, that’s still pretty sick in my book. [By the way, didn’t Michael Dukakis get in trouble in the election exactly because he answered a question about what he’d want to do to the perpetrator if his wife was raped with a very wooden statement of his views on the death penalty rather than saying something like “I would want to tear his fuckin’ heart out of his chest… And, yet, that does not mean I feel we as a society should endorse this.”] ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/66 "2003-06-19T16:47:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*You think putting someone (admittedly a murderer) to death is a laughing matter. I do not. \*\* Murderers should all go free. After all, they can’t be held responsible for their acts. Society is to blame. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/67 "2003-06-19T16:49:31Z")
This cartoon is a desperate gasp that would be worthy of Lyndon LaRouche. It is a grand statement that the Democratic Party no longer considers itself to be in the least bit worthy of leading this country. Instead, it has voluntarily relegated itself to a loony fringe. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/68 "2003-06-19T17:20:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dogface \* > \*\*Murderers should all go free. After all, they can’t be held responsible for their acts. Society is to blame. \*\* Nobody said that. What they said was that Dubya’s mockery of a woman begging for her life was disgusting. The Pubbies have no business criticizing the DNC cartoon while they work hand in glove with Republican pundits who spout the GOP party line with absolutely no respect for the facts. As long as the Pubbies feed their propaganda through the columns, books, and TV shows of Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Ken Hamblin, Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, Robert Novak, and Bill O’Reilly, they have no business dissing a cartoon that, as crude as it may be, is essentially telling the truth. The Bush adminstration has already shown their economic bias in favor of the ultra-rich, their contempt for civil liberties, and their dismantling of environmental protections, and their willingness to start a war and kill American soldiers using manufactured evidence. The DNC is just revealing what the GOP would prefer to keep hidden. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/69 "2003-06-19T18:02:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\ ***has repeatedly demonstrated their willingness to lie** > > _“I … did not have … sexual relations … with that woman …”_ > > Sure, Democrats lie, but the Republicans far outgun them in terms of the frequency, mendacity and viciousness of their lies. Plus, Clinton’s lie was an attempt to protect his family and his Presidency, forced on him by Repub assholes who had gone FAAAAAR past the bounds of ordinary decency in the pursuit of Clinton. I used to respect the Repubs prior to their attacks on Clinton, now I think that, however sincere some members may be, the party as a whole is festering cesspool of lies and hatred. > > **spread unfounded innuendos** > > _Such as?_ > > OK, two quick slam dunks, Vince Foster and Whitwater. > > **steal elections** > > _If you don’t understand how the electoral college works by now you probaby can’t be helped._ > > Lessee, that’s where your brother uses illegal and immoral methods to purge the state’s role of Dem voters, then the Supreme Court justices that your Daddy appointed swoop in for a quick, totally illegal, unethical decision that gets you the election? Is THAT how the electoral college works? I thought it was something entirely different. > > **make blowjobs a topic of political discourse** > > _The issue was perjury, not getting his dick sucked._ > > Bullshit. Total bullshit. The particular means by which the Repubs went after Clinton over the Lewinsky affair was an attempt to entrap him into perjury, but the issue was always blowjob, cocksucking blowjob. The American people knew it, didn’t go along with it, and that’s why the Repubs were never able to make the impeachment stick. > > **but damned if I think the Dems should let themselves be pushed into political irrelevance** > > The Dems ARE becoming politically irrelevant. Ya know why? They have no ideas. \*\* The Dems do have some ideas, but their leadership is failing them badly at the moment. Specifically, a total lack of balls on the part of the DLC. Like I said, we need people who’ll jump in the mud and fight it out with the Repubs blow for blow … so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/70 "2003-06-19T18:43:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > The Bush adminstration has already shown their economic bias in favor of the ultra-rich, their contempt for civil liberties, and their dismantling of environmental protections, and their willingness to start a war and kill American soldiers using manufactured evidence. The DNC is just revealing what the GOP would prefer to keep hidden. :rolleyes: Don’t forget them kicking puppies, knocking down the old man on the mountian, faking the moon landings, and causing all this rain we have been having lately. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/71 "2003-06-19T19:09:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > \*\*:rolleyes: > > Don’t forget them kicking puppies, knocking down the old man on the mountian, faking the moon landings, and causing all this rain we have been having lately. \*\* Gosh, **Debaser** I didn’t really expect you to be so dishonest. Nobody accused Bush of kicking puppies or any of that other nonsense. In fact, I’m sure that he likes dogs. However, [Bush’s tax plan DOES favor the rich](http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0115-05.htm) [Bush IS dismantling environmental protections](http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/default.asp) [Bush IS eroding our civil liberties.](http://www.sfbg.com/36/50/cover_civil_liberties.html) And we’ve already establsihed that Bush was lying when he said Saddam had weapons of mass destruction which he was making available to terrorists. Now are you going to address the issues like an honest man, or are you going to follow your fellow Pubbies by dismissing with irrelevancies what you cannot defend? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/72 "2003-06-19T21:20:26Z")
The tax plan cuts taxes across the board. It saves the rich more money because they pay more. That makes sense. The Bush administration isn’t doing as much for the environment as you like. They are hardly “dismantling” environmental protections. If you’d like to make a case otherwise, go ahead and start a thread showing which protections have been “dismantled”. The civil liberties thing is my favorite. Among the 22 bulleted items from the link you cite we can find: A radio DJ who was fired by the management at his station. So what. Ashcroft sends a memo to federal agencies stating “When you … decide to withhold records, in whole or in part, you can be assured that the Department of Justice will defend your decisions **unless they lack a sound legal basis.** ” So what. “Bush issues an executive order authorizing the creation of military tribunals to try noncitizens alleged to be involved in international terrorism.” Sounds like a good idea to me. So what. “Bush signs into law the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, which requires all people who work as security screeners at airports to be U.S. citizens.” Seems reasonable to me. So what. "Ashcroft issues a memo announcing the use of special visas for those who provide information relating to terrorists. " Where is the civil liberties that these good ideas are somehow affecting? It talks about the patriot act of course. Alleging that it: > [@](#): > > • Allows law enforcement to order Internet service providers to reveal the Web sites and e-mail addresses that a “suspect” has communicated to or visited. The FBI can get an order from a judge alleging that the information to be obtained is “relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation,” and **the judge must grant the order upon receiving this certification.** bolding mine. This is just blatantly false. The patriot act doesn’t do anything like this. Judges don’t have to grant anything they don’t want to. Plus, we had a thread on the Patriot act recently that no one could even come up with a single reasonable complaint about it. The hampsters aren’t letting me do a search now for it, though. Oh, and if Bush was lying when he said that Saddam had WMD’s then I suppose Clinton, Kerry, et al were lying as well when they said that he had them also? ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/73 "2003-06-20T02:24:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, and if Bush was lying when he said that Saddam had WMD’s then I suppose Clinton, Kerry, et al were lying as well when they said that he had them also? **—Debaser** Oh, saints preserve me. I don’t know how many times we’re going to have to go over this until everyone catches on. Clinton pressed to have inspectors sent to Iraq in 1998. Saddam kicked the inspectors out, so Clinton bombed Iraq. Because Saddam violated the UN mandate. Intelligence held that Iraq probably did have weapons of mass destruction, and it was a fair bet that that was so at that time. It was also a fair bet that that was so in 2002, when Bush pressed Congress on the matter, holding that he held information that was so damning that we had to not only go after Iraq again, but actually remove Saddam Hussein from power. The monkey wrench in Bush’s plan this time was that the Hussein regime was actually _complying_ with the UN weapons inspectors, who were looking for weapons of mass destruction. They didn’t find any, so Bush ordered the invasion. American and British inspectors haven’t found any weapons, either, and Bush is getting so frustrated that he’s attempting to revise history by talking about how this was about saving the Iraqi people and about destroying their weapons program, which they surely had, even though there have yet been no weapons of mass destruction of any kind found in the country. In short: Clinton said Saddam wasn’t complying, which was true. Bush said that we’ll definitely find weapons of mass destruction, based on evidence that his administration possessed, which was a lie. I don’t know how Kerry fits into all of this. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/74 "2003-06-20T03:55:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > Gee, **minty** , thanks for clearing up what is inhuman and what is kind, caring, and compassionate. > > Hurting the feelings of a convicted murderer is inhumane and horrible. Death threats when you lose a case are fine. Fuck that shit. I’m telling you what I’d be tempted to do to any such s.o.b. If you’re so daft you can’t tell the difference between temptation and action, that’s your problem. Ya know what? Sometime tomorrow, I actually have a slim chance of having somebody do and say what was described above. I seriously doubt you’ll hear anything about a lawyer who went nuts and stuck a ballpoint pen through some state actor’s throat. But goddamn if I wouldn’t be tempted. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/75 "2003-06-20T08:00:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chance the Gardener \* > Clinton pressed to have inspectors sent to Iraq in 1998. Saddam kicked the inspectors out, so Clinton bombed Iraq. Nitpick – Saddam didn’t kick the inspectors out. They left of their own accord after Saddam complained about American/Israeli spies within their ranks (an allegation that was proven true). ---
**Author:** ![Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@Chance\_the\_Gardener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chance_the_Gardener)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/76 "2003-06-20T11:07:53Z")
Thanks, **rjung**. I’m a little harried these days. I remember the bit about the spies. The overall feeling was, “How dare he make such an accusation?” But the fact is that we simply pulled out after the fact following the complaint… sorta like slinking away with our tail between our legs. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/77 "2003-06-20T11:52:13Z")
Upon further reflection and six hours of sleep, my “daft” comment above was inappropriate and beneath the dignity of the forum. My apologies, **Shodan**. The subject is, shall we say, a rather sensitive one for me. Ah well, I’m off to court. Now where’s my pen? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/78 "2003-06-20T12:03:38Z")
Good luck, **minty**. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/79 "2003-06-20T13:46:53Z")
We forgive you for what you said yesterday **minty**. Now, can you forgive Bush for what he said years ago? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589/80 "2003-06-20T14:09:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Upon further reflection and six hours of sleep, my “daft” comment above was inappropriate and beneath the dignity of the forum. My apologies, **Shodan**. The subject is, shall we say, a rather sensitive one for me. > > Ah well, I’m off to court. Now where’s my pen? \*\* Well, as the guy who basically started us down the road that led to your outburst, let me say that I liked “Fuck that shit”.🙂 The real answer, of course, is that if everyone who made an insensitive remark were declared “inhuman”, then there would be no humans on the face of the earth today. But as I said earlier, if it makes anyone feel better to call Bush “inhuman”, then go right ahead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-cartoon/182589.md?page=5)