# DNC closes ranks: new rule excludes interlopers **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 10, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846 "2018-06-10T22:29:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/21 "2018-06-11T01:49:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I don’t see how this — directly — has anything to do with principle. (And I don’t mean that in a snide sense; I mean I don’t see how principle enters into it.) > > Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the Democrats have some principles they’re genuinely plugging away for. Whatever they are — something about gun control, say, and something about affirmative action, and something about illegal immigration, and so on, and so on — _that’s_ where we can talk principles, right? If, say, you think they’re wrong to champion those principles; or if you think they’re right to champion those, but note that they didn’t do what they could for those principles. > > I’m with you. > > But after we discuss all of that, imagine the Democrats debate whether the rule we’re talking about will or won’t help their odds of advancing those principles. If the answer is “will”, then how is it a matter of principle to choose “won’t”? And if it’s “won’t”, then how is it a matter of principle to choose “will”? If someone wants to run as a Democratic Party candidate, someone supporting the principles the party says they stand for, someone who can actually win an election, what difference does it make whether she/he’s a Democratic Party member? Unless of course their support for those principles was just bullshit to win elections. And don’t forget the wonderful message to non-Democrats who vote, “We don’t want you if you’re not one of us”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/22 "2018-06-11T01:59:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If someone wants to run as a Democratic Party candidate, someone supporting the principles the party says they stand for, someone who can actually win an election, what difference does it make whether she/he’s a Democratic Party member? _I don’t know_; what difference do _you_ think it makes? If you think it makes them less likely to get folks into office for to support those principles, then you should of course criticize them for it; and if you think it makes them more likely to get folks into office for to support those principles, then I’d figure you should okay it. But, near as I can tell, _that’s it_: I don’t see that principle enters in either way. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/23 "2018-06-11T02:22:33Z")
My feeling is that, given the current state of affairs, the Democratic Party is one of two options available. Yes, third-party candidates and independents hold a few offices here and there – Bernie and Angus being the most notable – but in the lion’s share of contests, you _must_ pick one or the other or resign yourself to being inconsequential. If the other Party does not have this policy in place, it does not make the Democrats look good to institute it. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/24 "2018-06-11T02:23:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > We have had tons of True Scotsman lefties run for President in the Democratic primaries. Before 2016, I guess nobody saw the need to have a rule closing the “Air Bud Loophole” - there isn’t anything in the rule book saying a dog can’t play basketball. > > And most of those lefties have lost primaries in a generally convincing way. Let’s not pretend that radicalism is mainstream. How is liberalism radical? The left doesn’t have a radical branch (except maybe for some college students who riot and shout down conservative speakers). The mainstream left has no radical branch. If anything, we need one to move the overton window to the left. I wish he had honest to god communists so that the progressives looked more moderate. Sanders did fairly well in the primary. He came from nothing and won 43% of the vote and 23 states. He wasn’t Kucinich. The democratic party is getting more and more liberal. Pushing for liberal democrats from the west coast or northeast is going to get more and more common. > **[Analysis | The remarkably fast liberalization of the Democratic Party](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/10/05/the-remarkably-fast-liberalization-of-the-democratic-party/?utm_term=.add5d5420129)** > > Democratic voters have shifted more to the extreme than Republicans, according to a new study. > **[Trump Is Radicalizing the Democratic Party](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/symmetric-polarization/544059/)** > > For years, data have shown that conservatives have moved much farther right than progressives have moved left, but that trend may be ending. > **[Liberals make up the largest share of Democratic voters, but their growth has...](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/01/17/liberals-make-up-largest-share-of-democratic-voters/)** > > About half of Democratic and Democratic-leaning registered voters describe their own political views as liberal. > [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > I agree that Sanders represents that pressing need. And the best thing he could do about it is to join the party. Change it from within. Not take his toys and go home when he’s not given his way 100%. > > While he doesn’t do what’s in the interest of the rich and powerful first and foremost, he does what’s best for HIM first and foremost. He’s hardly the only senator that does it, but his image among the Bernie Bros and reality doesn’t line up. > > I’m very angry at Bernie, but I’ve been pushing for him for decades. He’s let me down by not being what I wanted him to be. He’s an illusion. There’s no substance. I guess not seeing it was forgivable when I was a teen in VT, but I see through him now. Can you explain why? What does he do that is so horrible? Had he won the presidency he would’ve been totally ineffective as president with a GOP congress. But I don’t get the hate for the guy. It is like people blame him for Hillary losing. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/25 "2018-06-11T02:27:07Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What a great principle for the Democratic Party to stand on. After all the important thing is remaining in power. No need to follow the GOP and pretend they stand for something else, just go out and announce to the world the only important thing is maintaining an exclusive club. What a shame they can’t run Hillary again. Oh wait they can lose another presidential election, no worries there, no consequences to Bush and Trump becoming president were there? I know you Berniecrats think you’re helping the country with your third party, populist, political outsider tripe…but you’re not. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/26 "2018-06-11T02:29:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m okay with the rule, but the real rub was super delegates. I don’t always agree with Bernie Bros, but when I do, I prefer limiting or even eliminating super delegates. > > Stay politically active my friends. I strongly disagree with you on this point. I’m glad the Democratic Party has superdelegates. Watch some of the chaos from the 1972 convention if you need further proof. Superdelegates can help right the ship should something go mad in the nominating process. Of course, the Democratic Party has all of their primaries and caucuses allocate pledged delegate proportionally, so there’s no winner take all nonessential that helped propel Trump. I’m still glad we have superdelegates. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/27 "2018-06-11T02:30:56Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > _I don’t know_; what difference do _you_ think it makes? > > If you think it makes them less likely to get folks into office for to support those principles, then you should of course criticize them for it; and if you think it makes them more likely to get folks into office for to support those principles, then I’d figure you should okay it. > > But, near as I can tell, _that’s it_: I don’t see that principle enters in either way. It has nothing to do with principle, but if they weren’t incompetent boobs they’d pretend that it did. Their only chance in the mid-terms is because the GOP abandoned its phony principles for Trumpism. And as it emerges what a mistake that was they’ll change their tune in a hurry, as they already are. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/28 "2018-06-11T02:32:07Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I know you Berniecrats think you’re helping the country with your third party, populist, political outsider tripe…but you’re not. I know you’d rather have Trump as president than find an electable candidate. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/29 "2018-06-11T02:54:15Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I know you’d rather have Trump as president than find an electable candidate. No, it’s just realizing that for decades, thicker than pigshit Americans of all stripes have been waiting for the magic pumpkin candidate to appear, and seem ever more determined to cut their nads off to find one…with predictably piss poor results. To anyone who sat out the election or voted 3rd party while simultaneously realizing the repulsiveness of Donald Trump, eff off. For the first time in our nation’s history, **a foreign adversary has as much influence as any cabinet member**. This is not a fucking joke. This is not the fucking time to complain about the lack of purity from the DNC. Wake the fuck up and see how dangerously close we are to the precipice. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/30 "2018-06-11T03:06:27Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > No, it’s just realizing that for decades, thicker than pigshit Americans of all stripes have been waiting for the magic pumpkin candidate to appear, and seem ever more determined to cut their nads off to find one…with predictably piss poor results. To anyone who sat out the election or voted 3rd party while simultaneously realizing the repulsiveness of Donald Trump, eff off. For the first time in our nation’s history, **a foreign adversary has as much influence as any cabinet member**. This is not a fucking joke. This is not the fucking time to complain about the lack of purity from the DNC. Wake the fuck up and see how dangerously close we are to the precipice. The Democratic Party put us there. What have they done for this country this century? And don’t say the ACA, they fought Obama tooth and nail on that one, and he had to win the primaries with grass roots populism. Don’t forget Hillary started the ‘Obama is a Muslim’ crap that led to Birtherism. They keep talking big and delivering nothing because they’re practicing machine politics. The political party system is a blight on this country and now they’re making it worse. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans can win an election with just their members anymore, Trump has sent a lot of Republicans to the ‘I’ column, this is not the way to pick them up. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/31 "2018-06-11T03:07:10Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Can you explain why? What does he do that is so horrible? Had he won the presidency he would’ve been totally ineffective as president with a GOP congress. If Bernie were president, we would not have Gorsuch, or Pruitt or DeVos or Cow-Pai, and most of the rest of the world would have at least a half a shred of respect left for the US. And he probably would have vetoed that ridiculous tax bill. So, a little less destruction would have been better than what we have. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/32 "2018-06-11T03:18:18Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The Democratic Party put us there. What have they done for this country this century? And don’t say the ACA, they fought Obama tooth and nail on that one, and he had to win the primaries with grass roots populism. Don’t forget Hillary started the ‘Obama is a Muslim’ crap that led to Birtherism. They keep talking big and delivering nothing because they’re practicing machine politics. The political party system is a blight on this country and now they’re making it worse. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans can win an election with just their members anymore, Trump has sent a lot of Republicans to the ‘I’ column, this is not the way to pick them up. Right, there’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans. They’re all the same. :rolleyes: p.s. 9/11 was an inside job. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/33 "2018-06-11T03:21:11Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Right, there’s no difference between Democrats and Republicans. They’re all the same. :rolleyes: > > p.s. 9/11 was an inside job. Just keep pretending Hillary is president right now. I didn’t say there was no difference, but they’re both political parties, and they both use the same kind of tactics and strategy, only because of your attitude the Republicans have been better at it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/34 "2018-06-11T03:22:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > If Bernie were president, we would not have Gorsuch, or Pruitt or DeVos or Cow-Pai, and most of the rest of the world would have at least a half a shred of respect left for the US. And he probably would have vetoed that ridiculous tax bill. So, a little less destruction would have been better than what we have. But seriously, for those of you who call me chicken little, this is what you need to understand, and this is why America is heading toward its inevitable collapse. There will be no unified stand against right wing authoritarianism. The growth of the political independents, the modern political know nothings, is the result of concerted efforts to destroy faith in democratic leadership and institutions by the right wing. As a result, centrists and leftists will fight each other, while the right wing eventually executes a hostile takeover of the country. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/35 "2018-06-11T03:25:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Just keep pretending Hillary is president right now. I didn’t say there was no difference, but they’re both political parties, and they both use the same kind of tactics and strategy, only because of your attitude the Republicans have been better at it. Keep pretending that Obama was president. What was he able to accomplish after 2010 when lazy as fuck progressives sat out mid-terms and allowed the tea party to take over? He actually _was_ able to accomplish ACA (imperfect as it was), TARP, and an economic stimulus package that put shovels in grounds and people back to work after one of the worst recessions in decades – all in less than 2 years. Not much after that. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/36 "2018-06-11T03:39:11Z")
TARP was accomplished in October of '08. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/37 "2018-06-11T03:40:15Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Keep pretending that Obama was president. What was he able to accomplish after 2010 when lazy as fuck progressives sat out mid-terms and allowed the tea party to take over? He actually _was_ able to accomplish ACA (imperfect as it was), TARP, and an economic stimulus package that put shovels in grounds and people back to work after one of the worst recessions in decades – all in less than 2 years. Not much after that. He was president, and he didn’t have the backing of the Democrats. They ran for the hills and joined the GOP in opposition, lost the congress, and all because they didn’t care a rat’s ass about the principles that kept their voters over the years. You just don’t get it, we had to suffer through Bush the Lesser, and now we’re suffering under Donald the Least because the Democrats can’t even pretend that they care about people in this country any more. That’s why they have no candidates, and why people think someone like Trump will save the country. Dear Og, Hillary didn’t even have the sense to take on Bernie as the VP candidate because she cared more about being challenged in the primaries than the people, winning, or even the Democratic Party. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/38 "2018-06-11T03:44:25Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But seriously, for those of you who call me chicken little, this is what you need to understand, and this is why America is heading toward its inevitable collapse. There will be no unified stand against right wing authoritarianism. The growth of the political independents, the modern political know nothings, is the result of concerted efforts to destroy faith in democratic leadership and institutions by the right wing. As a result, centrists and leftists will fight each other, while the right wing eventually executes a hostile takeover of the country. I thought you said we could vote our way out of this mess? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/39 "2018-06-11T03:53:22Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I thought you said we could vote our way out of this mess? We _could_…but look at what has happened the last few election cycles. How much do you trust the average American voter? It’s possible, but the fact is that too many Americans are too ignorant to vote. 2018 and 2020 might be our last chances to save this country. We’re very close to the end of American democracy and/or America as we’ve known it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/40 "2018-06-11T03:54:36Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > He was president, and he didn’t have the backing of the Democrats. They ran for the hills and joined the GOP in opposition, lost the congress, and all because they didn’t care a rat’s ass about the principles that kept their voters over the years. > > You just don’t get it, we had to suffer through Bush the Lesser, and now we’re suffering under Donald the Least because the Democrats can’t even pretend that they care about people in this country any more. That’s why they have no candidates, and why people think someone like Trump will save the country. Dear Og, Hillary didn’t even have the sense to take on Bernie as the VP candidate because she cared more about being challenged in the primaries than the people, winning, or even the Democratic Party. Right, the right wing is bat shit insane, so blame the Democrats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846.md?page=3)