# DNC closes ranks: new rule excludes interlopers **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 10, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846 "2018-06-10T22:29:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/81 "2018-06-11T19:02:18Z")
Great, then he can run as a proud Socialist. So, tell us, why would he even want the nomination of a party he disdains? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/82 "2018-06-11T19:26:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Great, then he can run as a proud Socialist. So, tell us, why would he even want the nomination of a party he disdains? Why? Because it’s the only way to win the presidency. Politics makes for strange bedfellows, as the saying goes. Anyway, I’m all for whatever helps Democrats win elections. I just don’t think this helps. Here’s a new rule idea for the Democrats: Don’t turn over the running of the DNC to a presidential hopeful before the primaries even start. Wait until after the primaries are over. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/83 "2018-06-11T19:40:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why? Because it’s the only way to win the presidency. By claiming a politically-poisonous title and disdaining both of the “real” parties as corrupt? Uh, no, that isn’t a way to win. Maybe one of his supporters should try answering. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/84 "2018-06-11T19:47:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Maybe one of his supporters should try answering. I was a supporter. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/85 "2018-06-11T20:00:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I was a supporter. I’m not telling you how you should have voted… but SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!!! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/86 "2018-06-11T20:23:14Z")
Did you want him to _win_, or just Send 'Em A Message? If the former, did you support him actually finally joining the party so he could work with it instead of just have the ego-massaging joy of denouncing it? If the latter, what message did you intend and what message do you think was actually received? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/87 "2018-06-11T20:42:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not telling you how you should have voted… but SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!!! For Bernie, I would be paraded naked through the streets of any city in Westeros! 😃 > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Did you want him to _win_, or just Send 'Em A Message? > If the former, did you support him actually finally joining the party so he could work with it instead of just have the ego-massaging joy of denouncing it? > If the latter, what message did you intend and what message do you think was actually received? I preferrerd him to Hillary “for the win”, but was fine with supporting her once she got the nomination. Getting back to your earlier question, if you think he was just trying to get a message across and wasn’t interested in winning, then the answer is the same: He thought he’d be more effective at accomplishing that as a contender for the Democratic Party Nomination. It would be hard to argue that he was wrong about that, although we’ll never know how much traction he would have gotten as a 3rd party candidate. Probably would not have made it into the debates. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/88 "2018-06-11T22:57:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not telling you how you should have voted… but SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!!! what the fuck ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/89 "2018-06-12T00:12:15Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > what the fuck It is a hyoo-man social custom known as “HYOO-MORE” - a concept unknown to Vulcans except those few who visited the renowned library on the doomed planet Sarpeidon. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/90 "2018-06-12T00:39:37Z")
It’s their party and they can [del]cry if [/del] set the rules the way they want to. In terms of rules, this isn’t that burdensome. It doesn’t prevent Ted Cruz from running for the Democratic nomination for President in 2020. He’d just need to be willing to say he’s a Democrat now and that he will accept the nomination if he wins. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > How did he poison the well exactly? Didn’t 90%+ of Bernie voters vote for Hillary? [Not necessarily.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0bfe036ce273) Two large polls that validated responses with voter rolls, to prove they actually voted both times, showed 12% of Sanders voters voted for Trump. Another that didn’t validate votes only showed 6%. Even before we consider third party votes or not voting for president in the general election as reactions by Sanders primary supporters there’s reason to believe the number is below 90%. If you read through the whole cite there’s even a real possibility that the Sanders to Trump voting pattern cost Clinton a couple of the close midwest states. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/91 "2018-06-12T01:18:15Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Can you explain why? What does he do that is so horrible? Had he won the presidency he would’ve been totally ineffective as president with a GOP congress. But I don’t get the hate for the guy. It is like people blame him for Hillary losing. Again, I was a Bernie supporter for years before most people outside of VT had even heard of him or took notice of him. And the ideals Bernie purports to have are very much in sync with my own (and Hillary’s voting record is like 90% the same as Bernie’s, but what’s a little “she sucks” between friends, right?). If he had gotten the nomination, I would have voted for him. Or more accurately against Trump. Because, let’s be honest, Bernie doesn’t have a strong congressional record. The \_\_\_\_-Sanders landmark bill doesn’t exist. I think his rabble rousing and dragging dems to the left was perfectly fine. But he doesn’t really _do_ anything. He’s the left wing Flavor Flav. He goes out and shouts a lot and brings attention to the message, but he’s not doing the hard work of getting real shit done. The Flavor Flav role is important as a cheerleader, but Bernie WANTING free college is not the same as Bernie getting some kind of free college bill in the works. So all the shit he wanted to do as president? Why isn’t he doing it now? I know things are a little insane and horrible, but he could be trying to push his agenda using his cult of personality popularity. But he’s not. He’s out there complaining about identity politics not being important and sulking at the Dem convention. He was one of my heroes but all I can see now is someone who wants the attention, not someone who wants to do the work. If the Dems as a party have decided that they want the workers and not the glory seekers, fine by me. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/92 "2018-06-12T13:58:20Z")
That’s it. He and his supporters claimed pride in his (allegedly) clean hands, but you can only keep your hands clean if you don’t do any work with them. He and they were, and remain, proud of their naivete and nonparticipation. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/93 "2018-06-13T16:03:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > End of dependence on foreign oil Are you sure about that part? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/94 "2018-06-13T16:12:29Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Are you sure about that part? Yeah, it’s well within reach. That doesn’t mean no oil is imported, it means that we don’t depend on it. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/95 "2018-06-13T16:56:13Z")
> [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > Because, let’s be honest, Bernie doesn’t have a strong congressional record. The \_\_\_\_-Sanders landmark bill doesn’t exist. I think his rabble rousing and dragging dems to the left was perfectly fine. But he doesn’t really _do_ anything. He’s the left wing Flavor Flav. He goes out and shouts a lot and brings attention to the message, but he’s not doing the hard work of getting real shit done. The Flavor Flav role is important as a cheerleader, but Bernie WANTING free college is not the same as Bernie getting some kind of free college bill in the works. Yeah, that about sums up my feelings as well. I was also legitimately concerned that Sanders wouldn’t release his tax returns, since that seemed to give more legitimacy to Trump’s own refusal to do so. If he runs in 2020 and still doesn’t do it, that’s going to be a huge giant red flag for me since I figure any 2020 Democrat is going to want to run on a graft-free and financial transparency platform (among other things). I’d still vote for him over Trump if he won the primary, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/96 "2018-06-21T19:45:29Z")
This is all kinds of stupid and fucked up. It’s like if the Berniecrats had taken over the DNC and passed a rule saying that no former First Ladies shall be eligible for the Presidential nomination. It’s just going out of their way to extend a middle finger to a constituency they need in order to win elections, for no rational reason at all. The Democratic establishment’s ability to shoot itself in the foot never fails to amaze me. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/97 "2018-06-21T20:06:18Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > It’s their party and they can [del]cry if [/del] set the rules the way they want to. > > In terms of rules, this isn’t that burdensome. It doesn’t prevent Ted Cruz from running for the Democratic nomination for President in 2020. He’d just need to be willing to say he’s a Democrat now and that he will accept the nomination if he wins. > [Not necessarily.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0bfe036ce273) Two large polls that validated responses with voter rolls, to prove they actually voted both times, showed 12% of Sanders voters voted for Trump. Another that didn’t validate votes only showed 6%. Even before we consider third party votes or not voting for president in the general election as reactions by Sanders primary supporters there’s reason to believe the number is below 90%. If you read through the whole cite there’s even a real possibility that the Sanders to Trump voting pattern cost Clinton a couple of the close midwest states. Thanks for the link. We see a lot on this board of the Big Lie that “Bernie supporters cost Hillary the election by sitting out or voting for Stein”. Just like “the Jews stabbed Germany in the back and made us lose WWI!”. Having said that, if you happen to be part of that small group of people who live in a swing state and refused to vote for Hillary because you think she wasn’t Left enough, please go roll around naked in broken glass for a while and then dive into a sewer. No question there were some Bernie supporters who sat out the general or voted for Stein. But the relevant question is whether this is anything specific to Bernie voters, or just the usual thing that happens in elections. I don’t have a cite handy, but my understanding is that 90% is about the typical level of support a Presidential candidate gets from supporters of the losing primary candidate. Sure, it _should_ have been 100%, but saying that the blame for Hillary’s loss rests \*mainly \*on a group of people that gave her 90% support (or maybe \*only \*88%:eek:) is just bizarre. And what I find really interesting from that article is that\* 25%\* of Hillary Clinton’s primary supporters voted for McCain in 2008! So why wasn’t anyone arguing that Hillary should be thrown out of the party and treated like a leper, given that her supporters could very well have cost the Dems the election with their disloyalty? And why wasn’t it terrible and unforgivable that Hillary hurt the Party in 2008 by staying in the race long after it was obvious she had only a tiny chance of winning? Any of you Bernie bashers want to take a shot at addressing this one? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/98 "2018-06-21T20:10:42Z")
Also, re Stein: She got just about exactly the same percentage of the vote in 2016 as she got in 2012, so the data doesn’t seem to support the idea that loads of angry Bernie supporters defected from the Democratic party in order to support her. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/99 "2018-06-21T20:20:55Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > It’s just going out of their way to extend a middle finger to a constituency they need in order to win elections, for no rational reason at all. The reason is that the Democratic nominee should be a Democrat, and that sore loser nonmembers should not be able to sabotage the Democratic campaign as effectively as Sanders did. How is that hard to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846/100 "2018-06-21T20:34:15Z")
How did he sabotage the campaign? How would this new regulation have prevented him from doing so? How is someone who has been caucusing with Congressional Democrats since 1991, who the Vermont Democrats haven’t seen fit to run a candidate against in all that time, who has endorsed and campaigned for countless Democrats and zero Republicans, and who ran for the Democratic Presidential nomination not, for all practical purposes, a Democrat regardless of what he chooses to call himself? If he had run exactly the campaign he did in 2016, but had formally registered as a Democrat prior to doing so, would you still have any problem with him? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dnc-closes-ranks-new-rule-excludes-interlopers/815846.md?page=6)