# Do adult gay men/women have a moral or ethical duty to come out of the closet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564 "2012-05-01T21:59:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/1 "2012-05-01T21:59:05Z")
I’m conflicted. On one hand, it’s none of my damn business what ones sexual orientation is. OTOH: Not coming out and making yourself known makes it all that much harder for gays to have equality. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/2 "2012-05-01T22:13:45Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I’m conflicted. > > On one hand, it’s none of my damn business what ones sexual orientation is. > > OTOH: Not coming out and making yourself known makes it all that much harder for gays to have equality. Let’s just all agree that there is a moral (and/or ethical — these are somehow different, I guess!) duty for straights not to sit around devising rules on how to be a proper gay. Live your lives, straights! Go make babies or visit the nudie bar or Chili’s or whatever! ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/3 "2012-05-01T22:15:40Z")
No, equality will come when enough people realize it is none of their god-damned business what consenting adults do in private, and that public displays are equally silly and/or cute regardless of who is participating. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/4 "2012-05-01T22:50:30Z")
Well this is silly. I mean, the burden of granting equality lies with heterosexuals, right? Blaming the victims for not doing enough is tacky, at best. And labeling closeted gays as immoral for not risking health and home by coming out (in order to, what, possibly show a few bigots the error of their ways?) is just strange. ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/5 "2012-05-01T23:16:32Z")
Straights have no ethical duty to be openly straight, so I can’t see it promoting equality to say that gays must be openly gay. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/6 "2012-05-01T23:22:14Z")
You don’t have a moral or ethical duty to do anything that you don’t THINK you should do, so no…you don’t. -XT ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/7 "2012-05-01T23:48:01Z")
No, why is it important to identify your sexual preferences? Although there is an argument although a weak one that says that people with high profiles should out themselves to show the greater society that not all the gays are evil… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/8 "2012-05-02T00:12:03Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > Well this is silly. I mean, the burden of granting equality lies with heterosexuals, right? Blaming the victims for not doing enough is tacky, at best. And labeling closeted gays as immoral for not risking health and home by coming out (in order to, what, possibly show a few bigots the error of their ways?) is just strange. I don’t feel that the burden of granting equality can lie with heterosexuals, unless it’s some sort of quite passive thing. I’m heterosexual and I don’t want to feel that someone is beholden to me, or that it’s within my power to grant or not grant such a thing. I can _acknowledge_ the equallity that does (or should) exist independently of my granting it or not. Maybe this is just semantics though. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/9 "2012-05-02T00:15:13Z")
On a personal level, I _wish_ that more gay men and women would come out of the closet. It would probably make their own lives happier and send a more powerful message to kids (and adults) struggling with the issue as well as to those with prejudices and ignorance who are not beyond changing their mind and who know a lot more gay people than they think they do. I don’t consider it their _duty_, however. To divorce it from sexual orientation, I think that exercising and eating healthily are also things that benefit everybody, but I don’t think they should be a _duty_. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/10 "2012-05-02T00:45:14Z")
When people openly walk out of the closet, their acquaintances tend to have a moment of emotional paradigm shifting. “Oh, this (living, breathing, affable) person (known to me) is gay.” If the acquaintance is a particularly bigoted person that shift can be quite cosmic. It’s **that** paradigm shift which creates the cognitive dissonance that the bigoted person needs to re-examine their views. “Maybe gay people are/are not etc…” Walking out of the closet can be a very powerful tool for “the cause”, but if the personal risks are “too high” it might not be wise. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/11 "2012-05-02T00:51:27Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I’m conflicted. > > On one hand, it’s none of my damn business what ones sexual orientation is. > > OTOH: Not coming out and making yourself known makes it all that much harder for gays to have equality. How does being “out” encourage equality? If there was an ethical or legal requirement to join a “gay registry” where you formally declared yourself gay, wouldn’t that serve as an easy way to discriminate against people? Right now, people don’t have to know you are gay and you are not normally obligated to tell them even if they ask (though lying is bad news, you can say “none of your business”) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/12 "2012-05-02T03:18:41Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > How does being “out” encourage equality? If there was an ethical or legal requirement to join a “gay registry” where you formally declared yourself gay, wouldn’t that serve as an easy way to discriminate against people? Right now, people don’t have to know you are gay and you are not normally obligated to tell them even if they ask (though lying is bad news, you can say “none of your business”) I don’t know. Maybe my logic is flawed. It just seems to me that if more of them came out of the wood work, waving away such blatant bigotry against gays wouldn’t be so easy. Prehaps I’m being overly optimistic about the human race. (Sad) ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/13 "2012-05-02T03:27:50Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > How does being “out” encourage equality? It is much easier to support discrimination against gay people when you don’t think you know any. When it’s your neighbor, your cousin, your coworker, you’re more likely to support gay rights. It becomes personal, rather than theoretical. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/14 "2012-05-02T11:52:46Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > On one hand, it’s none of my damn business what ones sexual orientation is. That’s not “on one hand”. That’s the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/15 "2012-05-02T12:29:27Z")
I don’t think anyone owes a moral obligation to become a martyr. Especially when it comes to something that intensely personal and private. > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Live your lives, straights! Go make babies or visit the nudie bar or Chili’s or whatever! Marry me? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/16 "2012-05-02T12:39:28Z")
I might argue that adult gay men/women have a moral or ethical duty not to persecute other gays in an attempt to hide their own orientation and address their own sense of self-loathing. Apart from that, I don’t care what they do as long as it doesn’t frighten the horses. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/17 "2012-05-02T12:49:49Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > Straights have no ethical duty to be openly straight, so I can’t see it promoting equality to say that gays must be openly gay. Is there an ongoing problem with straights having to pretend they are gay to avoid losing friends, family and perhaps their livelihood? Do they not show affection to their loved ones openly in public lest a gang of redneck homosexuals beat the shit out of them? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/18 "2012-05-02T13:09:21Z")
**Do adult gay men/women have a moral or ethical duty to come out of the closet?** I’d say no. But I’m with **Gyrate** that it _is_ immoral to be a hypocritical self-hating dick/cunt about it. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/19 "2012-05-02T18:31:20Z")
No, they don’t have any kind of duty to come out of the closet. Provided their decision to NOT come out of the closet doesn’t harm anyone else. For example … if a gay man is about to marry a woman … yeah. Might wanna say something. Or at LEAST break off the engagement (which he could do without coming out). Other than a scenario like that … nope. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564/20 "2012-05-02T18:50:55Z")
Anecdote time: Last night five of us went out for dinner last night. 5 men which was two gay couples and another whose gay partner is back home in a different country. We were enjoying our conversation and the roaming accordionist comes up to start chatting with us. We were polite and exchanged some pleasantries and ordered our foot. One of us ordered the 1 meter long bratwurst (which if eaten entirely gets you a shot of liquor and a certificate). Well, the accordionist comes back over and starts pushing our friend to finish so he can put the certificate up above his bed and get “all the ladies he wants” with that. We smiled and joked and our friend demurred that he really didn’t “want women…from this country”. We joked around and then the accordionist went on a hunt to find a single girl for our friend. Now, we are not closeted people. We are all out to friends, family, co-workers, anyone who we really interact with. But is it our duty to correct those who assume we are straight? Is that what being out is? That we should change the conversation and try and let a random stranger know that he’s mistaken about us needing a meter long sausage to get women into bed? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-adult-gay-men-women-have-a-moral-or-ethical-duty-to-come-out-of-the-closet/620564.md?page=2)