# Do American states have the most iconic shapes of any national subdivisions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 3, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845 "2015-09-03T19:57:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/61 "2015-09-04T17:57:09Z")
Surely everyone would get Florida. We’re the flaccid penis. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/62 "2015-09-04T18:10:59Z")
Never heard of the Shoshone National Park before. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/63 "2015-09-04T19:45:42Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Oh that’s interesting, I never knew it did that. I wonder why? And I don’t think Colorado’s border takes any turns, does it? There are a [couple of jinks](http://www.howderfamily.com/blog/colorado-not-rectangle/) on the western boundary of Colorado due to surveying errors. Looking at the map, there seem to be couple of others along the southern boundary. None seem to be quite as large as the ones along Wyoming’s northern boundary through Yellowstone National Park, however, which are also due to surveying errors. Besides the slight differences in proportions, the jinks provide a way to distinguish the two states, at least if you had a map that was accurate at a large enough scale. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/64 "2015-09-04T23:56:01Z")
> [@Doughbag](#): > > I bet even US Americans will have problems distinguishing which square is Colorado or Wyoming. You’d be right, I’m sure. Many Americans are terrible about world geography, let alone USA geography. My sister was a Geography Professor at the university with the largest (then) geography department in the US. She liked to give tests to freshmen: given a blank sheet of paper, draw the outline of the USA’s lower 48. Some results were truly comical. I think I’ve seen similar test results on the internet. > [@Colibri](#): > > There are a [couple of jinks](http://www.howderfamily.com/blog/colorado-not-rectangle/) on the western boundary of Colorado due to surveying errors. Looking at the map, there seem to be couple of others along the southern boundary. None seem to be quite as large as the ones along Wyoming’s northern boundary through Yellowstone National Park, however, which are also due to surveying errors. Besides the slight differences in proportions, the jinks provide a way to distinguish the two states, at least if you had a map that was accurate at a large enough scale. Thanks for this, **Colibri**. It’s funny, but that article shows the paradoxical irregularities in the state boundary, and it’s just southwest of the town of Paradox, Colorado. 😃 I shirt you not. See here on the map: [Google Maps](https://goo.gl/maps/EZIxb) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/65 "2015-09-05T04:48:31Z")
The various subdivisions within Germany and Italy spent a few centuries as independent states (albeit with shifting borders and alliances). Those have to be pretty iconic. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/66 "2015-09-05T07:45:26Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > The boundaries of the states of Australia are at least as iconic as those of the US, and for much the same reason: they generally follow lines of longitude or latitude, except for the Murray River between NSW and Victoria. > > They are so iconic that they are often used in logos, e.g.: > [http://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/miscellaneous/now-nsw-logo.jpg](http://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/miscellaneous/now-nsw-logo.jpg) > [https://www.marketbeat.com/logos/bank-of-queensland-logo.jpg](https://www.marketbeat.com/logos/bank-of-queensland-logo.jpg) > [http://www.adssa-inc.com.au/images/logo.png](http://www.adssa-inc.com.au/images/logo.png) I wonder if there are any other countries besides Aussie and US that do this with their “state” or “province” shapes. I hate to say this, I too look at maps of countries like Mexico and see hard to memorize “blobs”. USA sports logos: [http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/\_\_cb20101008114123/logopedia/images/thumb/3/38/19731985Angels.gif/200px-19731985Angels.gif](http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101008114123/logopedia/images/thumb/3/38/19731985Angels.gif/200px-19731985Angels.gif) [https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vf0W\_uZLISY/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/FJuFPbzJyCY/s0-c-k-no-ns/photo.jpg](https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vf0W_uZLISY/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/FJuFPbzJyCY/s0-c-k-no-ns/photo.jpg) [![](https://jsportsblogger.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/minnesota-twins-old-logo.gif) ](https://jsportsblogger.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/minnesota-twins-old-logo.gif) [![](http://www.michiganpanthers.org/Panthers2.png) ](http://www.michiganpanthers.org/Panthers2.png) ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/67 "2015-09-05T09:48:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Perhaps an interesting question would be “In what other countries are the shapes of sub-national entities _used as icons_ as they are in the United States?” Australia most definitely. And more so than in the US I suspect, in that **all** the states use their outlines. Since, as pointed out above, we don’t have any undistinguished rectangles to worry about, it would be a very rare adult Australian that could not instantly recognise all the the states from their outlines. Further, it is common for states to use their outline as the basis for a distinguishing mark. Government agencies in the states will use a mark of the state’s outline on documents, and most states have had tourism campaigns with graphic design based around their state’s outline. The outlines of the states are sufficiently well known to have become rooted in popular parlance. If you ask a girl to show you her map of Tasmania, the meaning is perfectly understood by any Australian. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/68 "2015-09-05T10:47:36Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Australia most definitely. And more so than in the US I suspect, in that **all** the states use their outlines. Since, as pointed out above, we don’t have any undistinguished rectangles to worry about. If you have to rotate them, NT and SA could be confused. Of course NT might make it into the list of states as “the bit left over when the states are removed”… T for territory. Stupid Country. Merge NT into QLd (or WA or SA , as suboptions.) , and SA into WA, and merge Tas into Vic. Merge ACT suburbs into NSW. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/69 "2016-03-15T14:22:00Z")
If the USA still looked like the USA, but the states rejiggered, by Randall Munroe. Quite extraordinary. I don’t know where/if he cheats much. > **[Map of the United Repositioned States](http://vaviper.blogspot.com/2016/03/map-of-united-repositioned-states.html)** > > Randall Munroe rearranged the states  without compromising the general shape of the U.S.: I highly recommend Munroe's books  - I've gi... A nice icon for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/70 "2016-03-15T14:54:21Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Canada’s are all pretty distinct, and some do involve straight lines. Saskatchewan, like Colorado and Wyoming, is almost a … whatever you call that shape. It’s not a true rectangle. I’d call it trapezoidal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/71 "2016-03-15T15:24:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Surely everyone would get Florida. We’re the flaccid penis. Florida: America’s wang! Catchy tourism slogan. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/72 "2016-03-15T15:50:12Z")
[QUOTE=Clairobscur] Very soon, the number of regions will be drastically reduced and as the result the dozen of regions left will have even less to do with historical provinces. [/quote] Apparently on a smaller scale as well — French state/ Euro bureaucrats are prolly on some demented vision of making everywhere as dull and indistinct as American states: An hour ago I saw a Japanese drawing of Moret-sur-Loing, home of Sisley, where the Impressionists roamed; so I looked it up. Charming would be the word. An OK [**mediaeval**](https://janettravels.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/moret-sur-loing-for-charm-always-follow-the-impressionists/) town but not that different from 1000s of other Western European towns. [**Houses**](http://www.realtor.com/international/search-listing/MORET-SUR-LOING_FR_CFR00221354) not bad, but tiny by American standards. [**Wiki**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moret-sur-Loing) said: _On 1 January 2015, Moret-sur-Loing and [Écuelles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cuelles,_Seine-et-Marne) merged becoming one commune called Orvanne, which merged into the new commune [Moret-Loing-et-Orvanne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moret-Loing-et-Orvanne) on 1 January 2016_ ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/73 "2016-03-15T17:40:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Having said that, I never once thought about the shape of the county I lived in growing up in the UK. I mean, I could recognize England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland even as abstract shapes, but definitely not [Somerset](http://www.westsomersetonline.gov.uk/App_Themes/Website/images/wardmapparish.jpg) or the West Midlands. I also don’t remember ever being required to learn the names of the counties. We did have to learn the Saxon kingdoms in history class. Really? Interesting, I’d have though most would know their own country. I’m from Warwickshire, which has a huge great hole in it where they removed a chunk and made the West Midlands. I guess a large part of this is size. US states are country-sized. I know the shape of a lot of countries. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/74 "2016-03-15T17:49:07Z")
> [@](#): > > I guess a large part of this is size. US states are country-sized. I know the shape of a lot of countries. On the other hand, I can also recognize the shape of my own county, as (I think) can many other people from around here. At least, the last time I said “that splotch that’s shaped like Cuyahoga County”, the other five people present understood what I meant. Then again, most US counties aren’t anywhere near as distinctive as Cuyahoga (which is right on the edge of the state, on one of the natural-feature borders), and most of them are just basically rectangles. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/75 "2016-03-16T01:26:39Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Apparently on a smaller scale as well — French state/ Euro bureaucrats are prolly on some demented vision of making everywhere as dull and indistinct as American states: > An hour ago I saw a Japanese drawing of Moret-sur-Loing, home of Sisley, where the Impressionists roamed; so I looked it up. Charming would be the word. An OK [**mediaeval**](https://janettravels.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/moret-sur-loing-for-charm-always-follow-the-impressionists/) town but not that different from 1000s of other Western European towns. [**Houses**](http://www.realtor.com/international/search-listing/MORET-SUR-LOING_FR_CFR00221354) not bad, but tiny by American standards. [**Wiki**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moret-sur-Loing) said: > _On 1 January 2015, Moret-sur-Loing and [Écuelles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cuelles,_Seine-et-Marne) merged becoming one commune called Orvanne, which merged into the new commune [Moret-Loing-et-Orvanne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moret-Loing-et-Orvanne) on 1 January 2016_ I’m not sure how merging the communes is supposed to diminish the charms of Moret-sur-Loing? The merged commune incorporates four former communes, three of which were so depopulated as to be unviable, hence the merger. Montarlot, before the merger, had a population of just 220; Épisy had just 510. Did they each really need their own mayor and municipal council with the same powers as the City of Paris? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/76 "2016-03-16T01:41:48Z")
The US did do a pretty amazing job of shaping all the states so that they fit together snugly, though. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/77 "2016-03-16T05:19:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Perhaps an interesting question would be “In what other countries are the shapes of sub-national entities _used as icons_ as they are in the United States?” Since it got resurrected anyway… for Spain it’s more likely to be the regions than the provinces; those provinces which get used a lot happen to be those that are a region by themselves. There are also some supra-regional silhouettes which are commonly used but whose exact form varies by the purpose for which they’re being used. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/78 "2016-03-16T11:38:15Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > There was a Facebook meme a week or two ago where educated Britons were asked to label unlabeled states on a US map. A few of them were able to recognize California or Texas, but that was about it. So, no. Which has nothing to do with the OP’s question: > [@buddha\_david](#): > > Or am I wrong? Can people from Auvergne, France immediately distinguish their state’s shape from Champagne-Ardenne? Is a Paraná-shaped belt buckle instantly identifiable for what it is? What do people from other countries think about the shapes of their states/prefectures/etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/79 "2016-03-16T12:50:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Having said that, I never once thought about the shape of the county I lived in growing up in the UK. I mean, I could recognize England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland even as abstract shapes, but definitely not [Somerset](http://www.westsomersetonline.gov.uk/App_Themes/Website/images/wardmapparish.jpg) or the West Midlands. I also don’t remember ever being required to learn the names of the counties. We did have to learn the Saxon kingdoms in history class. The problem is that UK counties are not fixed entities. They were for centuries, but in the past 50 years or so they have been mucked about with repeatedly. I used to live on the borders of Hampshire, Berkshire and Surrey. Now I live on the borders of Hampshire, Bracknell Forest, Wokingham and Surrey. We’ve seen abominations like “Avon” and “Humberside” come and go, Rutland disappear and rise from the dead, and don’t even ask me what the hell is going on in [Wales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_government_in_Wales). If you ask someone what county a given town is in, the answer will usually be “it depends”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845/80 "2016-03-16T13:38:30Z")
True. But Somerset and Dorset (where I grew up) have mostly remained the same shape, and certainly didn’t change while I was living there. But yeah, I wish they’d stop mucking about with counties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-american-states-have-the-most-iconic-shapes-of-any-national-subdivisions/729845.md?page=5)