# Do Americans get the government they deserve? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 12, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596 "2004-08-12T21:23:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/1 "2004-08-12T21:23:00Z")
This thread has been inspired by things I have observed in a current campaign. It doesn’t matter which side I’m on, so I’ll keep my observations generic. This was going to be a GD, but I want to swear. What I have seen is repeated, intentional, borderline slanderous attacks on Candidate A by Candidate B and his “camp” that are at best irrelevant and at worst factually incorrect. I’m sure it’s not the first time in our great nation’s history that this has happened. My initial reaction is fear that the gullible or prejudiced among us believe these attacks, and will therefore vote for Candidate B based on a false (but easily debunkable) impression of Candidate A. However, lately I’ve tended to reason that if people are stupid enough to believe this crap, then it’s their problem if they vote for someone whose platform consists primarily of various ways to fuck them over. Is it possible that our political woes are a direct result of us being a nation of lazy, credulous dumbasses? I don’t want to believe it. But I look around at the horse-drop that travels under the banner of “news” and I become pessimistic. Supposing there are 150 million voters out there, and based on recent polls, probably 50 million of them are stupid fucks, how many more stupid fucks can we as a nation tolerate before we hurtle irretrievably toward a grisly, Darwinian fate? I think it’ll take just a couple of thousand more shitheads to form a critical mass that will push us over some stability limit and down history’s toilet bowl. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/2 "2004-08-12T22:11:12Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Is it possible that our political woes are a direct result of us being a nation of lazy, credulous dumbasses? I don’t want to believe it. But I look around at the horse-drop that travels under the banner of “news” and I become pessimistic. Supposing there are 150 million voters out there, and based on recent polls, probably 50 million of them are stupid fucks, how many more stupid fucks can we as a nation tolerate before we hurtle irretrievably toward a grisly, Darwinian fate? I think it’ll take just a couple of thousand more shitheads to form a critical mass that will push us over some stability limit and down history’s toilet bowl. In answer to the op (and in keeping with bbq pit form), fuck yeah. 🙂 If we are too idiotic and lazy to realize we are being sold magic beans, we deserve to lose the cow. Part of the problem is that those who may be smart enough to see through the horse drops don’t feel particularly motivated to vote. No matter how objectionable they may find the policies of the current administration, they other sides may be just as bad so why even bother? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/3 "2004-08-12T22:11:45Z")
If this were a democracy, yeah, we’d get what we deserve. But it’s a republic where we vote for someone (electoral college) who can, in turn, vote however the hell he wants. So we get what we get. I share your cynicism of the media. It’s a profit-driven machine, not truth-driven. As such it is corrupt and can not be trusted. Anyways, the average Joe doesn’t have time to research claims, however outrageous, nor does he have time to investigate potentially criminal activity on the part of his own leadership, however outrageous. Joe is too busy living his life and breathing the air he is blown. All is lost. We are unwitting thralls of the oligarchy. We shall endure progressively worse use for several hundreds of years before we either trie and revolt or mutate into the cattle we consume and are becomming. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/4 "2004-08-12T22:48:54Z")
Inigo, well said, and sadly true. If the masses ever stop fighting amongst themselves, they’ll realize their true enemies are their leaders. Dems, Pubs, Tories, Whigs, it matters not a lick, and the media, Oy, what shysters! It will take a full fleged revolt to change things now. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/5 "2004-08-13T00:30:46Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > It will take a full fleged revolt to change things now. If you had the brains Ghod gave a crawdad, you wouldn’t even _think_ about this, you ADD bucket of immature horse cum! Read the history of the US Civil War. Read the **casualty statistics!** And then comprehend, you complete fucktard, that a civil war is never never a good thing!!! Goddam idiot infant! Stupid jingoistic inbred dogfucker! The only reason you said this in the first place, is that some jackass talk radio host put it into your titnibbling head, you hamhock! Get an idea of your own! ONE THAT DOESN’T INVOLVE GETTING PEOPLE KILLED! :mad: :mad: :mad: BTW–I live in a town with **2** Civil War Battlefields–a regular Union one, and a Mass Grave for the losers! Do _you_ have a mass grave in _your_ town? It lends a _certain perspective on all things political…_ :mad: :mad: :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/6 "2004-08-13T00:40:40Z")
Infinite :rolleyes: to **Bosda**. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/7 "2004-08-13T00:52:33Z")
To quote The Onion: People say we get the government we deserve, but I don’t recall knife raping any nuns. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/8 "2004-08-13T01:57:28Z")
We need to get Ford to endorse one party, Chevy the other, and maybe GM for an idependent. That’d at least get more NASCAR voters to the polls. Maybe the Govt. could issue a pamphlet to every American with a comparison chart of each politicians beliefs and “promises”. At least then people would vote on the issues, rather than picking a “team” to be loyal to for no better reason than “I’ve always voted for them”. I hate to think that idiots elect our president, but politicians are good liars and idiots are **really good** believers. I wonder why everyone thinks our country is arrogant and stupid? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/9 "2004-08-13T02:02:57Z")
Seems Bosda missed the bloody pill cart! Let’s break this down, shall we? > [@bosda](#): > > \*\* If you had the brains Ghod gave a crawdad, you wouldn’t even think about this, you ADD bucket of immature horse cum!\*\* > > _Dude, This insult is a touch weak, not to mention, the last part of it doesn’t really make any sense._ > > **Read the history of the US Civil War. Read the casualty statistics!** > > _I have read the history of the US Civil War, I know about the amount of casualties, frankly, I’m not all that impressed. The tactics in many battles were, in hindsight, horseshit. It’s NEVER, and I repeat NEVER a good idea to line up in front of the people who are shooting at you. (hidden snipers and artillery work MUCH better) Not to mention the fact that many deaths can be contributed to the lack of adequate medical care for the wounded in the field. Still, despite it’s primitive construction, the cap and ball rifles caused SERIOUS wound cavities._ > > **And then comprehend, you complete fucktard, that a civil war is never never a good thing!!!** > > _I don’t ever recall saying a Civil War WAS a good idea, my tightly wrapped little friend, any inference to a ‘revolt’ is more figurative than literal, but i suppose the subtlety MIGHT escape you, what with your knee jerking so violently and all._ > > **Goddam idiot infant! Stupid jingoistic inbred dogfucker!** > > _Y’know, I’ve said some pretty outrageous things in my career as a doper, that got me insulted, but this is the most i think i’ve ever been insulted in one sentence. It actually brings a tear to my eye._ > > **The only reason you said this in the first place, is that some jackass talk radio host put it into your titnibbling head, you hamhock!** > > _No, actually I said it because I think it’s high time Americans took stock of how their leaders are raking them over the coals. Our money, our liberties, our freedoms are evaporating, and if it takes a civilized non-violent revolution to make people see, then by the gods, it should happen. By the way, I hardly need talk radio to form an opinion, when I’ve got your razor wit, and keen insight to help me see clearly the error of my ways._ > > **Get an idea of your own!** > > _I did, see above_ > > **ONE THAT DOESN’T INVOLVE GETTING PEOPLE KILLED!** > > ditto > > \*\*BTW–I live in a town with 2 Civil War Battlefields–a regular Union one, and a Mass Grave for the losers! > > Do you have a mass grave in your town? It lends a certain perspective on all things political…\*\* > > _No, don’t have a mass grave in my town, that I know of anyway, so i suppose you’ve got me on that one. I’ve been all over many of the Civil War Battlefields while at the National Fire Academy in Emmitsburg for two weeks. I learned more about the Civil War in those two weeks from our instructor (who was a frustrated CW tour guide) than I did in all my years in school, I’m honestly not ignorant of the lessons learned from that war, pal._ Get a grip, skippy. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/10 "2004-08-13T04:53:18Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > If you had the brains : snip : all things political… : Drill Instructor voice : “HOLY DOGSHIT! I THINK HE’S GOT A HARDON!” And the over the top response of the year award goes to … dude, I don’t know what lit your fuse but that piece of rage made me laugh so hard my throat is cramping! 😃 Oh, you’re kinda right, of course. Things aren’t nearly bad enough right now to justify bloodshed on the kind of magnitude a "full fleged revolt " would entail. History has taught us that in order for that to be justified the masses have to go through the grinding poverty and famine and complete misuse by the oligarchy before the gillo…er, guilli…um, guilelle…uh, beheadings begin. Before we 'merkins get to that point we’ll see in Ireland a peaceful and sovreign nation blossoming in the sunshine of freedom with roots delving deep into the blood drenched soil of revolution. So what is that then, the year 2135? But there are some of us who hang our heads in recognition of our path to this part of the cycle, however distant it may be. But **Bosda** , that was the most obscene rant I’ve seen in a long time. Excellent work! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/11 "2004-08-13T05:37:30Z")
Methinks **Bosda** ’s mail problem is with the aforemention radio talk show host. Eh, **Bosda**? (And just for the record, I don’t know who it is. It just seems like this is a more rational reason for his twisting off like that than the OP itself, which was concerned more with the fact he/she thinks we’re headed downhill.) ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/12 "2004-08-13T05:40:01Z")
Pffft. At least 95% of the Peepul have always been idiots, and I suspect the number has actually gone down. It’s easier to ignore al the idiots in history who never wrote, never voted, and never got quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Train\_Song](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/13 "2004-08-13T14:07:37Z")
Really the only way to vote in this country is with your money. Economic sanctions would be a form of revolt. As in, stop going to beenie baby conventions and just sit there on top of your money until the economy comes to a screeching halt. Don’t buy a new car or a new house or furniture or any other luxury items. But people are to caught up in “stuff”, me included. I like stuff too much. If I were a government and I wanted to see how far backwards I could bend a person, I wouldn’t ask allan Greenspan. I’d pull up ebay and see how much some dumb fucker is willing to pay for a piece of utter shit on ebay, how much a box of snow is going for. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/14 "2004-08-13T14:32:57Z")
It’s not just the States BTW AFAICS you’re just a little bit ahead of Europe when it comes to the behaviour of parties and the electorate when it comes to elections. > [@](#): > > The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter > > - _Winston Churchill_ Nice rant BTW **Bosda** ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/15 "2004-08-13T15:10:33Z")
Well said **indigo** , we’re fucked, it’s the fall of the republic. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/16 "2004-08-13T17:32:07Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Methinks **Bosda** ’s mail problem is with the aforemention radio talk show host. > > Eh, **Bosda**? > > (And just for the record, I don’t know who it is. It just seems like this is a more rational reason for his twisting off like that than the OP itself, which was concerned more with the fact he/she thinks we’re headed downhill.) What has me **really** peeved is the sniveling defeatism in this thread! America has had dreadful periods of corruption before–witness the Gilded Age. But people got organized within the system and changed things. The character of a political party can shift rapidly within a decade. Witness the internal changes in the Republicans between 1985 and 1995. (A negative change in my view, but not to everyone.) A nation can re-invent itsself- witness Russia’s changes within our lifetime. And here you shit-sponges wanna give up without a fight! :mad: Get involved with local politics– **all** politics are local. My father went from an unknown to a man the local newspaper solicits opinions from, merely by running as an Independent. He spent $200 on the campaign, and yet now, local leaders listen, and he has been instrumental in blocking a corrupt fraud that would have left our county buying worthless land from a bigwig in the State 'Pubbies to build a convention center. You **can** change things. As for **button** -boy–you _were_ advocating it, & your denial is transparent. When confronted with the barbarity of your position, you re-trench, & try to put “spin” on what you said. I wonder if we have a sympathizer with the militias in our **buttonjockey308**. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/17 "2004-08-13T17:55:08Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > And here you shit-sponges wanna give up without a fight! :mad: You’re getting mad at us for acknowledging the enevitable? A U-turn on the path we’re headed is impossible. > [@](#): > > You **can** change things. The system is broken, our choices for change are limited, and they’re not even choices, just 2 different ways to slide down the crapper. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/18 "2004-08-13T17:56:54Z")
\*_inevitable_ ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-americans-get-the-government-they-deserve/259596/19 "2004-08-13T19:03:19Z")
**Bosda** , I’m pickin’ up what you’re puttin’ down about involvement and the like. And I agree with it to a point. As a bear of average brain I could do as you suggest: do my part (responsibility, really) as a member of an electorate and become active in at least local politics. My excuse is that I don’t have time–I have 2 jobs, my wife has one job and is a full time student, we have no family apart from ourselves, and we have 3 little kids that need watchin’. We barely get by and we don’t live extravagantly–our NEWest car is a 1989 and we have no debt (anymore :rolleyes: ). I reckon I’m doing better than Joe, because I have not only one job, but two (one sucks, admittedly). My point is, times are hard right now, so few people have time for things that matter (family & living), and even less time for things that REALLY REALLY matter, like the intangible future. And of those that do have the time, how many of them are qualified, capable and moral enough to be desirable leaders? Times are hard, but not yet hard enough to spark reform–the qualified leaders need to become unemployed and have nothing left to do but lead. This time is not yet here, but it’s in the mail. But then, with this Homeland Security crap where any political agitator can be labeled and made to disappear, the option of grassroots reform seems to have become very much more dangerous than it was 80 years ago. My view is that we’re in the limbo cycle right now between good times and infernal change–in the form of a bloodbath like we had about 140 & 225 years ago or (hopefully) just a few bloody noses & a room temperature death toll like we had 40 years ago. I’ll say that nobody is yet willing to create a viable & credible organization aimed at identifying corruption and large-scale social problems; suggesting corrective measures in the way of reliable if not economically strong representatives; and willing to spend an indetermnate amount of time in Guantanamo as a “detainee.” _Mother Jones_ is as close as I’ve seen anyone come, but their focus is too wide and their verbiage and attitude is alienating, intimidating, one sided, unprofessional and so sensationalistic as to erode any credibility the publication might ever accumulate–this obsevation, and I’m a subscriber. They’ll never win the heart or mind of retired 68 year-old Hans who lives next door to me, nor any of his friends, and THEY are the ones with all the free time, wisdom and experience that would be instrumental in effecting change, but they’ll all be dead within 15 years. Students count for shit in this arena because they know little but what they’ve read–air blown to them–and they lack the restraint to prevent alienating the very people they want to save. All the rest of us, Joe, are too damned indisposed just now.