Completely disagree. In fact, criticizing the US is practically a national past time. Everywhere else in the world I’ve been, I’ve NEVER seen other citizens criticize their governments like an American can. Hell, look at this board for an example. Most of the posters are American, and all of them criticize America. Right winger? They criticize the US too (Roe vs Wade, gun control, no church in schools, too many taxes, too many social programs etc). Left wingers? They criticize the US too (Bush in office, not enough gun control, Iraq war, no universal health care, too few taxes, not enough social programs, etc). The Rich? Yep, they criticize. The poor? Yep. Middle class? Don’t even get me started.
Go to any bar in the country on a friday night and you will hear people complaining/criticizing the US. As I said, its practically a nation past time, reguardless of which side of the fence (or even if you sit on that fence) you are on.
Well, I know of no where that riding a Japanese motorcycle will get you insulted…exept by those who feel Japanese motorcycles are crap. I totally disagree with your assesement that if you excercise your rights to protest that you are labled by the majority as ‘anti-American’ or ‘Traitor’. Its a pretty small fringe group that would call you so…and guess what? If you excersized your rights to protest other things, a whole different fringe group would be calling you names as bad or worse. If you allow yourself to be cowed by a few fringe lunitics into holding your tongue when you really feel your cause is just because they call you names…well, I’ll just say that I’m glad not everyone feels the way you do and leave it at that.
This really reminds me of the theory propounded in the 18th century that the swamplands of North America were antithetical to a healthy, proseperous society and large animals… both of which could be found in Europe, of course. Jefferson sent out a hunting party to shoot a moose and send it to the originator of this theory, who was Frnech, but whose name escapes me at the moment.
Yes, Americans do take themselves too seriously. The amount of religious zeal and the boundless faith in America being the best country ever isn’t really condusive to lightheartedness.
Sure, but you’re completely ignoring all the times the emotionally-insecure Americans (e.g., Bush-voting Republicans) respond to said criticism with attempts to stifle it – “If you hate the USA so much, leave!” being but one example.
I can’t recall the last time a conservative complained about something in the US, and a liberal/progressive/lefty person gave a response along those lines. But then, some of us are sufficiently mature to realize that “America, right or wrong” is a stupid sentiment to hold.
So, you are admitting that these folks represent the majority then rjung? Or did you just not bother to read what you quoted? Lets go through it again:
Perhaps you missed this? Or were you just trying to score some points by going off on a tangent?
Why should you care. Did they actually try and MAKE you leave? Again, this seems like whinning to me. If you have your convictions, then some blathering by the other side about being ‘traitors’ or whatever non-sense shouldn’t really bother you much. If you LET it, then they already won.
What the hell are you talking about? What response? Did you actually read what I wrote or do you just have some kind of tape recorder in your head and reel this bullshit off? The point, which cruised by you again in your usual partisan blather is that I can’t think of a single group of American’s that DOESN’T complain about the government…constantly and vocally. Even the ‘America, right or wrong’ crowd complain about SOMETHING here. It doesn’t matter which side of the fence you are on…its our national past time.
Inability to accept criticism of one’s country is a defense against cognitive dissonance. Big time criticism of a country generally occurs only when that country is engaging in bad behavior with regard to world affairs. When that happens, the jingoistic/nationalistic citizens of that country are usually in denial about what is actually happening. And because they don’t want to hear the truth about what their country is doing, they react by getting all uptight and angry whenever they hear some outsider beginning to say something that sounds like the truth.
Case in point is the French back during the war in Algeria. It was painfully obvious to any outsider that the French efforts to hold the country were wrong morally and hopeless practically, but a portion of the French population was so attached to their dream of empire that they just refused to see it. And they were as testy and arrogant as you could possibly imagine. But now, four decades later, that attitude is completely gone since they don’t have any unfortunate reality that they need to protect themselves from.
Another case in point is the United States right now, in relation to the Middle East. Now the United States has been screwing around in the Middle East for decades, staging a revolution in Iran, funneling money to the Taliban through Pakistan, supporting Saddam Hussein with money and weapons during the 80’s, supporting Iran in the 80’s, and propping up the fascist Saudi government. To outsiders it’s clear these actions are all morally wrong and practically that they’re responsible for turning the Arab world into the shithole that we see today. But to many Americans, accepting the truth would be too painful, so they just have to pretend not to remember the support for the Taliban and the support for Saddam and all the rest. And along with that, of course, comes an unwillingness to even listen to anyone who wants to tell the truth.
People in other countries are not so defensive. Just look at Canada, for instance.
The less serious people become, the more they take themselves seriously (and the less humorous they become, incidentally). The abolition or at least deterioration of thinking taking place in the USA and many other developed countries (developing countries often have the opposite problem - the people have been actively encouraged not to think for generations) has many effects. One of those effects is that which the OP mentions. Others include worsening judgement.
Do Americans take themselves too seriously? Did Rose Kennedy have a black dress?
Part of it is down to the whole “irony thing”. I don’t subscribe to the idea that Americans can’t “do irony”, but there is a kernel of truth in it. So they can’t handle any ironic comentary on their country.
Also the other odd thing about the tea-dodgers is that despite all their bluster and bragadaccio they’re actually very very insecure. If you doubt this, go to the Fodors travel forums and look at the number of posts from Americans who are terribly worried about going abroad. That is not the sign of a secure country. More seriously, the “war on terror” is another symptom of this deep seated insecurity.
Still never mind - you can take yourselves as seriously as you like - we’re not going to take you seriously until you get your American Hair sorted out
Yes, IOKIARDI=It’s O.K. If A Republican Does It. In other words, you can expect that if at a banquet, a democrat guest speaker makes political remarks from the speaker’s stand, he will be lectured for having done so, by various media outlets, for speaking in an inappropriate forum, but if a republican does the same, he will be praised. Also, the fact that documentaries produced by Michael Moore have a political viewpoint, instead of being “impartial, like a documentary should be”, and many, many violations of ethics.
This thread reminds me of a geeky bespeckled sociology major writing an article in the school paper about how the guys who play five sports and get laid all the time are really insecure. It’s a sour grapes mentality that embraces mediocrity.
Who is the criticism coming from? What is the nature of the criticism? If I make an assertation that Republicans are Nazis, are they supposed to be amused? It’s like if I tell you “you suck” and then cry “oh I was only joking! Can’t you take a joke?” when you get mad.
The thing is, people generally don’t like to be criticised by some smug know it all.
Guess you don’t like people exercising THEIR freedom of speach.
As for the Japaneese bike thing, unless you go to a Harley Davidson rally, I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
People are free to say and think what they want. I may disagree with what they say, but I support their right to say it. Still, name-calling is not usually an appropriate response in a discussion.
‘I think the U.S. is wrong in regards to [insert issue] because [insert reason].’
‘You traitor!’
See?
In any case, this thread is supposed to be a poll; not a debate or a rant. If I can go off on a little tangent, I used to work for a large corporation. I got a good look at people who took themselves too seriously there. These people were so wrapped up in the corporate world that it was as if they were the Walking Dead. Their favourite pastimes appeared to be schmoozing, displaying their own importance, and climbing the corporate ladder. They didn’t seem to talk about anything outside of work, and they got all wrapped up in petty issues (‘I went to the New York office and Tony has an office! Why does he have an office? He’s only a sales consultant, and I’m a supervisor!’).
Now, that sort of ‘life’ is okay for them if that’s how they want to live it. But seen from the outside (or from the inside, but from a different perspective) it looks silly. Think of The Office, for exampe. It’s funny because it’s often accurate. In my opinion people like this take themselves too seriously. Get enough people like this, or enough people who behave in any given way, and it becomes a stereotype.
This does not mean that all people in a given group fit the stereotype. From my previous example, there were several of us in the company who did thought the corporate preening was silly. Not all French people are arrogant. Not all Englishmen are Gay. Not all priests are pedophiles. Not all Australians are happy-go-lucky. Not all Mexican officials are corrupt.
As I’ve said, many or most Americans are quite gregarious. As a whole, I’d say we’re very friendly people. But In My Humble Opinion, we still take ourselves too seriously.
You make a point there! Insecurity can be the foundation of a lot of hard work, ambition and success. You might say insecurity built this country. Maybe we’re even proud of our insecurities!
As for the soc major, is s/he bespeckled or bespectacled? Or both?
In my experience, Americans definitely take themselves too seriously. I have a number of American friends (plus I’ve played MMORPGs for years, so I meet them a lot online) and there is a real double-standard at work in terms of humour.
I find it funny when they joke about Australians being criminals, or make light fun of our accents or joke about whether we all live in huts and power our computers with a treadmill for electricity* - but say anything about the gun culture of America or any other equally stereotypical scenario and their butts pucker up so hard you could make diamonds from coal. Ribbing only goes one way, apparently.
So yes, I’d say Americans take themselves too seriously. There’s very much an attitude of ‘We can make fun of ourselves, but nobody else is allowed to make fun of us’, which’d be fairer if it didn’t go hand in hand with ‘And we reserve the right to make fun of everyone else, too.’
It doesn’t bother me to any great extent, but it does strike me as a bit of a double standard. That said, I wouldn’t trade my mates for quids.
And the old reliable favourite about kangaroos in the main streets. What’s *really * funny about that, though, is that just last year we actually had one turn up in the main street of my town. It was front-page news in the local paper.
