# Do animals have their own gods? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 28, 2000, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000 "2000-11-28T06:53:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wandering\_Pilgrim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@Wandering\_Pilgrim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wandering_Pilgrim)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/21 "2000-11-28T19:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Astroboy14 \* > \*\*The Bible draws a clear distinction between “soulful” animals (monkeys, dogs, etc.) and “soul-less” animals (fish, ants, etc.)… > > Maybe the “soulful” animals _do_ have some concept of a divinity… > > \*\* Where in the bible does it say this??? ---
**Author:** ![Mirage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Mirage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirage)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/22 "2000-11-28T19:30:47Z")
God is a complex idea created by the human need to explain what happens in the world around them. Without much capacity for rational thought, animals react to the world more than they try to understand it. The concept of god is meaningless without the distingtly human concepts of fate, personal identity, and self-awareness. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/23 "2000-11-28T19:37:05Z")
FWIW, Asimov wrote a short story called “Flies” which deals with this subject. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/24 "2000-11-28T19:38:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mirage \* > \*\* The concept of god is meaningless without the distingtly human concepts of fate, personal identity, and self-awareness. \*\* So you’re saying that animals are not self-aware? If so, I have to disagree. Many of the “higher” animals are very self-aware. The larger apes, especially the ones with highly developed social structures have to have at least some measure of self-awareness. Some might even argue that larger, social pack animals such as wolves and elephants are self-aware. Hell, there are times when I’m all but convinced my CATS are self-aware. ---
**Author:** ![Uniball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Uniball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniball)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/25 "2000-11-28T19:51:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tisiphone \* > **Uhmmm, back to the OP, did the ants also curl their abdomens underneath themselves?** Yep. > [@](#): > > \*\*If so, what you saw might have been a threat response to the smell of fried fellow ant. Some ant species shoot jets of formic acid to defend themselves (or hunt other insects). The stance for this (thank you National Geographic and David Suzuki) has the front pair of legs in the air and the abdomen curled under the thorax, with the tip of the abdomen pointing forward. > \*\* Makes sense to me. Thanks for the clarification. And yes, National Geographic and Discovery Channel are THE best on television. ---
**Author:** ![Mirage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Mirage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirage)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/26 "2000-11-28T19:58:45Z")
My point is that God is the creation of a rational thought process, you need wonder about how things work before you can create a god to explain them. While apes might lay in that semi-human grey area, I would not venture that dogs are self aware in a rational sense. They might posess a concept of their existance, but they lack the logical complexity to form any of the philosophical ideas which we do when we contemplate a God. Also, don’t confuse social behavior with intelligence, just because a dog acts like it thinks like a human doesn’t mean that it really does, evolution and instint have managed to fake it for millions of years. On the other hand, dog’s have a concept of Alpha Male, which is similar to God, but this is only in a leadership sense, not a spiritual one. ---
**Author:** ![peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peace)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/27 "2000-11-28T20:26:49Z")
Ishmin…, what evidence do you want? Do you say that a child is born with God’s image in his head? If so, which one? If this child is raised up an atheist? Or without any knowledge of religion, God, theology? Or if he is not very bright? Will he “discover God” on his own? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/28 "2000-11-28T20:30:04Z")
Um, Uniball-do you get off on torturing animals or something? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/29 "2000-11-28T20:36:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by peace \* > \*\* Or if he is not very bright? Will he “discover God” on his own? \*\* No, that’s when organised religion steps in. Sorry. Couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![Lego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5e925/32.png) [@Lego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lego)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/30 "2000-11-28T21:07:42Z")
Do cows and pigs have a religion? If they do, we shouldn’t eat them. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/31 "2000-11-28T21:16:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Um, Uniball-do you get off on torturing animals or something? > ☹ \*\* Yeah; the torturing insects thing really bothered me, too…_shudder_ Or were you just toying with them the way god supposedly toys with us? (Er…tests us…tests us!) ---
**Author:** ![Uniball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Uniball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniball)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/32 "2000-11-28T22:04:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Um, Uniball-do you get off on torturing animals or something? > ☹ \*\* Of course not. I have two dogs and five cats. But killing a vicious, eye-poking cockatoo is one thing; and roasting ants when you’re a child, heck, EVERYBODY did that! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/33 "2000-11-28T22:12:22Z")
Um, no, not everyone did. I never did… But to each his own… ---
**Author:** ![Uniball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Uniball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniball)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/34 "2000-11-28T23:19:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by peace \* > \*\*In your case, the whole “ritual” was probably due to agonizing contractions. \*\* Nope. Cause it wasn’t the ant being fried at the time; it was the ant I was planning to kill next. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2000, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000/35 "2000-11-28T23:41:34Z")
Feh. I tried to keep this open to learn the facts about the bible’s take on “soulful” animals. What do I get? Great Debates and tangents on ant killing. That’ll learn me. This thread is closed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-have-their-own-gods/43000.md?page=1)