# Do Animals Rape? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2001, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092 "2001-11-13T08:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/41 "2011-06-21T03:44:43Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > 10 year old Zombie rape? :eek: :dubious: Don’t look at me like that. I suppose the thought’s never crossed **your** mind. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/42 "2011-06-21T03:54:30Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > 10 year old Zombie rape? But which part is more wrong? The necro- or the pedo- part of the pedonecrophilia? And can even a Zombie over 18 be said to be capable of consent? And since the brain is the ultimate erogenous zone is it oral sex when a Zombie eats your brain? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/43 "2011-06-21T04:49:26Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > 10 year old Zombie rape? :eek: > > You are wrong. There has been plenty of evidence given in this thread that healthy, normal animals sexually assault each other all the time. > > Utter nonsense. That’s what I learned in Animal Behaviour class (2nd year psych), however the terms rape/sexual assault wasn’t used, but “sneak mating.” Just remember that anthropomorphism is a much hated bane of Animal Behaviourists, it routinely leads to shallow, misleading and naive interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/44 "2011-06-21T05:06:30Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > That’s what I learned in Animal Behaviour class (2nd year psych), however the terms rape/sexual assault wasn’t used, but “sneak mating.” Just remember that anthropomorphism is a much hated bane of Animal Behaviourists, it routinely leads to shallow, misleading and naive interpretations. I can understand **that,** but are “rape” or “sexual assault” really “anthropomorphic” terms? Sounds like they would fit right into the terminology of natural history, along with “thief ants” and so on, despite both “thief” and “rape” being concepts originally drawn from human social/legal relations. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/45 "2011-06-21T05:10:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > But which part is more wrong? The necro- or the pedo- part of the pedonecrophilia? 's not pedo ! That thread is over 70 in dog years ! ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/46 "2011-06-21T06:47:13Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > 10 year old Zombie rape? :eek: What?! I have an alibi. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/47 "2011-06-21T08:11:29Z")
Before this zombie thread gets closed, there is a [story you all should read](http://thinking-critically.com/2010/09/28/homosexual-necrophilia-in-the-mallard-duck/). ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/48 "2011-06-21T08:37:52Z")
The online world of 2001 was a place of poverty, before Cracked came along. Duck rape? [Read all about it!](http://www.cracked.com/funny-2938-duck-rape/) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/49 "2011-06-21T11:35:27Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > That’s what I learned in Animal Behaviour class (2nd year psych), however the terms rape/sexual assault wasn’t used, but “sneak mating.” Just remember that anthropomorphism is a much hated bane of Animal Behaviourists, it routinely leads to shallow, misleading and naive interpretations. The opposite error of refusing to use the same terms for both humans and animal behavior is at least as bad, however. Trying to enforce some imaginary bright line between human behavior and animal behavior is just as self indulgent and illogical as the people who want to treat animals like people in costumes. And often extremely immoral, like trying to pretend _no_ animal can suffer. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/50 "2011-06-21T11:53:25Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > That’s what I learned in Animal Behaviour class (2nd year psych), however the terms rape/sexual assault wasn’t used, but “sneak mating.” Either you are misremembering what you were taught, or you were taught by someone who has no idea what they were talking about. Sneak mating is the term used to describe a male mating with a female that has been claimed by another male. For example, a roaming lion mating with a lioness in the pride of another lion, or a male frog depositing sperm into the water around a pair of frogs that is copulating. While sneak mating certainly \*can \*be rape, the vast majority of sneak mating is not rape, and the vast majority of rape is not sneak mating. You can not use the terms interchangeably, and if someone taught you that you could.. well. > [@](#): > > Just remember that anthropomorphism is a much hated bane of Animal Behaviourists, it routinely leads to shallow, misleading and naive interpretations. Who is anthropomorphising? When I say that an animal eats, that is not anthropomorphising, it is stating afact. And when I say that an animal prefers one food over another, that is not anthropomorphising. And when I say that an animal is aggressive, that is not anthropomorphising. And when i say that an animal is involved in rape, that is anthropomorphising. Those terms all apply equally well to all animals. There isn’t even a suggestion of anthropomorphisation in the use of the terms. The fact that your teacher thought that there was, and wanted to rename it “sneak mating” is very telling. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/51 "2011-06-21T12:10:00Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > That’s what I learned in Animal Behaviour class (2nd year psych), however the terms rape/sexual assault wasn’t used, but “sneak mating.” Just remember that anthropomorphism is a much hated bane of Animal Behaviourists, it routinely leads to shallow, misleading and naive interpretations. Isn’t ‘Sneaky’ itself an anthropomorphism? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/52 "2011-06-21T13:49:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The opposite error of refusing to use the same terms for both humans and animal behavior is at least as bad, however. Trying to enforce some imaginary bright line between human behavior and animal behavior is just as self indulgent and illogical as the people who want to treat animals like people in costumes. And often extremely immoral, like trying to pretend _no_ animal can suffer. Yes animals can suffer, I know of no academic says different. In fact this is such a well recognized principal that there are strict ethical rules and guidelines that all academics must follow if they to work with animals in any matter. The Canadian Council on Animal Care (our “national peer review agency responsible for setting and maintaining the standards for the care and use of animals in research, teaching and testing”) lays out some of the concerns that must be routinely considered in their [CCAC policy statement on: ethics of animal investigation](http://www.ccac.ca/en_/standards/policies/policy-ethics_animal_investigation). For a more complete picture there’s the [GUIDE TO THE CARE AND USE OF EXPERIMENTAL ANIMALS](http://www.ccac.ca/Documents/Standards/Guidelines/Experimental_Animals_Vol1.pdf)(PDF). ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/53 "2011-06-21T14:02:27Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Isn’t ‘Sneaky’ itself an anthropomorphism? I can’t see how the word “Sneak” (to act stealthy) can be an anthropomorphism. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/54 "2011-06-21T14:19:45Z")
The term you guys are looking for is ‘forced copulation’. Rape is inappropriate (but used) because rape is a crime. The concept of crime does not apply to the behavior of nonhuman animals. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/55 "2011-06-21T14:30:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I can understand **that,** but are “rape” or “sexual assault” really “anthropomorphic” terms? Sounds like they would fit right into the terminology of natural history, along with “thief ants” and so on, despite both “thief” and “rape” being concepts originally drawn from human social/legal relations. Calling a sort of mating behaviour that animals do “rape” is very controversial. When you observe animal mating behaviour they are many reasons why one partner might be unwilling/resistant/adverse to copulating. Off the top of my head… 1. The reluctant partner might have no idea that the willing partner is after sex. For animals (whether they are social or anti-social) mating often resembles predation or aggression. What you are observing is not one partner’s reluctance toward sex, but an automatic response toward fear of injury, harm or death. 2. The reluctance to mate might just be the normal process of courtship for that species. For example, Wolfs go through a long (sometimes many weeks) cycle of solicitations and chases. You might call this “flirtatious,” but that’s simply how they mate. On another scale many laypeople call the mating behaviour of mallards “duck rape” (look it up); but it’s simply how they mate too. It’s not good practice to attribute human reasoning to the beaviour of animals. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/56 "2011-06-21T14:32:30Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I can’t see how the word “Sneak” (to act stealthy) can be an anthropomorphism. Many of the senses of 'sneak imply behaviour that belies intent. Intent in humans is something you can interview them about, and it is widely known and understood that humans have a hidden inner thought-life. Intent in animals is largely inferred from behaviour, so can’t simultaneously be contrary to that behaviour. That was my thought process when I asked the question, anyway, but I can see one or two potential flaws in it. ---
**Author:** ![DHMO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@DHMO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DHMO)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/57 "2011-06-21T14:40:37Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Who is anthropomorphising? When I say that an animal eats, _that is **not** anthropomorphising_, it is stating afact. And when I say that an animal prefers one food over another, _that is **not** anthropomorphising_. And when I say that an animal is aggressive, _that is **not** anthropomorphising_. And when i say that an animal is involved in rape, \*that \*\*is \*_anthropomorphising_. [emphasis mine—DHMO] I am certain you have _inadvertently_ confirmed **orcenio** ’s thesis. I feel, however, that I must agree with **orcenio** on this issue. The term, “rape” implies a level of volition which lower animals (i.e. less-than-human intelligence) cannot have. Their behavior may be aberrant, or non-standard for the species, but rape is a very emotionally-charged word which is predicated on _intent_. Animals are usually taken to be incapable of that level of sentience. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/58 "2011-06-21T15:22:12Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Either you are misremembering what you were taught, or you were taught by someone who has no idea what they were talking about. It’s possible I’m misremembering (I’m only human), but I don’t think so. Also I can assure you that my professor knows exactly what he’s talking about, he’s a very accomplished animal behaviouralist (and a cool guy). > [@](#): > > Sneak mating is the term used to describe a male mating with a female that has been claimed by another male. For example, a roaming lion mating with a lioness in the pride of another lion, or a male frog depositing sperm into the water around a pair of frogs that is copulating. I can easily see how that can be called “sneak mating” too. > [@](#): > > While sneak mating certainly \*can \*be rape, the vast majority of sneak mating is not rape, and the vast majority of rape is not sneak mating. You can not use the terms interchangeably, and if someone taught you that you could.. well. My professor didn’t tell us to use the terms interchangeably, he just told us (as an ethologist) that the term “rape” wasn’t valid for animal behaviour. In class he used the term “sneak mating” in times where someone would possibly use “rape”(if talking about humans). He also told us (as a psychologist) that it’s folly to do the inverse and attribute some perceived evolutionary/animalistic reasoning to human behaviour (claiming that rape is “natural,” etc). Which explains my Evo-psych joke [in post 43](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13938803&postcount=43) > [@](#): > > Who is anthropomorphising? When I say that an animal eats, that is not anthropomorphising, it is stating afact. And when I say that an animal prefers one food over another, that is not anthropomorphising. And when I say that an animal is aggressive, that is not anthropomorphising. And when i say that an animal is involved in rape, that is anthropomorphising. > > Those terms all apply equally well to all animals. There isn’t even a suggestion of anthropomorphisation in the use of the terms. The fact that your teacher thought that there was, and wanted to rename it “sneak mating” is very telling. I assure you, he’s not renaming anything. He, like many others, simply used the term “sneak mating” to describe an instance where one partner (who incidentally couldn’t attract a mate) stealthy caught another partner and mated with them. If you say that the term “sneak mating” covers much more then that, fine. My professor never told me it didn’t. In reality, you are in agreement with my professor’s use of the term “sneak mating.” The contentiousness issue is the use of the term “rape.” ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092/59 "2011-06-21T16:49:00Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > It’s possible I’m misremembering …“sneak mating.” The contentiousness issue is the use of the term “rape.” **Blake** ’s examples are what is referred to as ‘sneak mating’. Once again, your professor should have used the term ‘[forced copulation](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=forced+copulation&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C6&as_ylo=&as_vis=0)’ in place of the term rape. Compare the types of behavior described in the abstracts of those articles versus ‘[sneak mating](http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=sneak+mating&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=1%2C6&as_sdtp=on)’. Professors often have to teach outside their specific subfield and may get confused; you ought to ask him/her why ‘sneak mating’ replaced rape. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-animals-rape/93092.md?page=2)