# Do anti-gay marriage activists object to transexual marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149 "2009-04-23T21:17:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/1 "2009-04-23T21:17:36Z")
Inspired by this disturbing, disturbing video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NRn4TWyUm0&feature=channel\_page](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NRn4TWyUm0&feature=channel_page) As in the thread title. Do they acknowledge a sex change as valid, and its considered to be “opposite marriage”, or is it just gay marriage to a eunuch? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/2 "2009-04-23T22:16:54Z")
While I don’t define myself as an antigay activist, normally “we wicked misguided monsters” :rolleyes: do not consider sex-change anything to be useful or real in any moral sense. They do not change your sex, only surgically knife up your body and flood you with hormones. However, you could probably have such a thing and then marry heterosexually, which would be weird and possibly doomed but whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/3 "2009-04-23T23:20:41Z")
Generally speaking, transexual rights lag behind gay rights. Most anti-marriage activists probably have views on transexuals similiar to **smiling bandits** : that changing one’s gender is impossible, and only results in surgical mutilation. So a MTF who married a man would be in a gay marriage, which (in their view) should be illegal, while one who married a woman would be in an acceptable straight marriage. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/4 "2009-04-24T00:27:25Z")
In my experience, all of us who don’t fit into their stereotypes are just “gay”: little difference between gays/lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals, cross-dressers, hermaphrodites, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/5 "2009-04-24T00:52:21Z")
No, if it’s a guy (pre-knife, pre-hormones) and a gal (ditto), no problemo. “Guyness” and “galness” are not alterable. You own perception and desires, sure. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/6 "2009-04-24T00:53:28Z")
Actually this is quite interesting. I know a transexual couple where both are transexual. Legally, they would be marrying the opposite sex. They would just be switching who the male and female are. I wonder how the law treats this sort of thing. I don’t think the law can say a damned thing about it. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/7 "2009-04-24T01:26:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Generally speaking, transexual rights lag behind gay rights. Most anti-marriage activists probably have views on transexuals similiar to **smiling bandits** : that changing one’s gender is impossible, and only results in surgical mutilation. So a MTF who married a man would be in a gay marriage, which (in their view) should be illegal, while one who married a woman would be in an acceptable straight marriage. George Cook, a former Presbyterian minister running a “Messianic Judaism center” called [The Nehemiah Center](http://www.nehemiah-center.org/index.html), who made an abortive attempt to take over Christian Forums in 2007, is I think typical of the social-conservative Christian viewpoint on this: From their Statement of Faith: > [@](#): > > We believe that G-d has commanded us to abstain from all intimate sexual activity outside of marriage between a man and a woman. We believe that all forms of homosexuality, lesbianism, bisexuality, bestiality, incest, fornication, adultery, pornography and gender altering surgical procedures, are wrong and sinful perversions of G-d’s gift of marital sex to a man and a woman. Therefore, the following statements are self evident in light of G-d’s written Word: > > a) We do not recognize those unrepentant of the aforementioned sins as eligible for service in any office of ministry. > > b) We do not recognize those unrepentant of the aforementioned sins as eligible for marriage. > > c) We do accept the repentance of those who have made surgical alterations to their external physiology; however due to the permanence of these changes they remain ineligible for both marriage and ministerial service. > > d) We do recognize that repentance and acceptance of Yeshua/Jesus as L-rd and personal Savior washes these sins away. > > We do not condone, accept or recognize the altered states and assumed roles of transsexuals, transvestites and transgender. They will be recognized as the physiological sex in which they were born; however, surgical alteration of the birth physiology renders the individual ineligible for marriage or service in any office as a minister of G-d. A man is a human being who was born male in physiology, as is a woman a human being born female in physiology, there is no Biblical grounds for the concept of “a man trapped in a woman’s body” or “a woman trapped in a man’s body”. As such we do not condone, endorse, acknowledge nor perform marriages for same sex, open, group, polygamist, transsexual, transgender or any other lifestyle or concept of marriage other than that which is between one man and one woman in accordance with G-d’s Word. (Gen. 2:24; Gen. 19:5, 13; Lev. 18:1-30; Rom. 1:26-29.1 Cor. 6:9-11, 1Thess. 4:1-8; Heb.13:4). Some conservative Christians do understand the feelings that transgendered people have – whether or not they agree with them. However, they tend not to be the ones who are anti-gay activists. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/8 "2009-04-24T03:36:44Z")
The rights of the transgendered really are the test of the gay marriage controversy. These people are not gay, but they are fully protected by the Constitution. If the position of the social-conservative Christian is: “We do not condone, accept or recognize the altered states and assumed roles of transsexuals, transvestites and transgender.” then I don’t think they are having an honest conversation. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/9 "2009-04-24T04:50:20Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > These people are not gay . . . There are people who were transgendered and gay (MtF and attracted to women, or FtM and attracted to men). ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/10 "2009-04-24T06:31:13Z")
No kidding? Gee, thanks for clearing that up. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/11 "2009-04-24T12:39:48Z")
Most (all?) anti-gay peoples are against anything other than married male-female sex. A MTF marrying a man would be a “gay” marriage in their book. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/12 "2009-04-24T13:17:24Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > While I don’t define myself as an antigay activist, normally “we wicked misguided monsters” :rolleyes: do not consider sex-change anything to be useful or real in any moral sense. They do not change your sex, only surgically knife up your body and flood you with hormones. However, you could probably have such a thing and then marry heterosexually, which would be weird and possibly doomed but whatever. So how’s being such a hateful asshole working out for you? ---
**Author:** ![Iamametalrobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iamametalrobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iamametalrobot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/13 "2009-04-24T13:28:07Z")
> [@Telperien](#): > > So how’s being such a hateful asshole working out for you? Is it really hateful to think that current medical techniques are insufficient to change one’s gender? Or that maybe people who want to have their perfectly functional genitals sliced up need mental help, not surgical? And just curious, what do you think is the minimum need to effect a sex change? I would say nearly complete body replacement (say grow a brainless clone of the opposite gender, and transplant brain) would be needed for me to consider a person’s gender changed. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/14 "2009-04-24T13:30:14Z")
> [@Iamametalrobot](#): > > Is it really hateful to think that current medical techniques are insufficient to change one’s gender? Or that maybe people who want to have their perfectly functional genitals sliced up need mental help, not surgical? Your opinion might be valid, were there not an entire branch of psychiatric medicine that considers gender dysphoria a valid problem and gender reassignment a valid treatment for it. ---
**Author:** ![Iamametalrobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iamametalrobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iamametalrobot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/15 "2009-04-24T14:11:16Z")
Psychiatric medicine has considered all sorts of things to be problems in the past (like say . . . homosexuality 😉 ) and has many odd or extreme “treatments” for said problems - treating gender dysphoria with genital mutilation & hormones is the modern day equivalent of a lobotomy. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/16 "2009-04-24T14:15:22Z")
> [@Telperien](#): > > So how’s being such a hateful asshole working out for you? Personal attacks and insults are not permitted in the General Questions forum. Please avoid them from now on. No warning issued. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/17 "2009-04-24T14:18:55Z")
> [@Iamametalrobot](#): > > Psychiatric medicine has considered all sorts of things to be problems in the past (like say . . . homosexuality 😉 ) and has many odd or extreme “treatments” for said problems - treating gender dysphoria with genital mutilation & hormones is the modern day equivalent of a lobotomy. You do realize that the treatment progression for gender dysphoria isn’t “Here’s a ticket to Sweden, go get your weewee lopped,” right? There’s an extensive regimen of treatment that progresses from therapy through living full time as your ideal gender through actual reassignment surgery. The depth of the dysphoria is explored in meticulous detail so that the proper treatment can be determined. It’s not like people are scheduling reassignment as outpatient express or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Iamametalrobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@Iamametalrobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iamametalrobot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/18 "2009-04-24T14:31:22Z")
Of course there is extensive treatment and lots of therapy before any gender “altering” surgery is done. The psychiatrist who end up recommending the surgery wouldn’t get nearly as much money if they sent said patients to surgery and hormones right away. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Elliot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jane_elliot/32/6166_2.png) [@Jane\_Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/19 "2009-04-24T17:20:41Z")
I have a relative who has Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. She is in her early 30’s, genetically a male, but looks female. She’s never had any surgery, lives as a female, and is only sexually interested in males. According to anti-SSM people, should she: 1. Never marry? 2. Marry a man (because she looks female)? 3. Marry a woman (because she’s genetically male)? ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149/20 "2009-04-24T17:41:25Z")
> [@Iamametalrobot](#): > > Or that maybe people who want to have their perfectly functional genitals sliced up need mental help, not surgical? Do you also believe that people who have their perfectly functioning noses, breasts, calves, etc “sliced up” should get mental help? > [@Iamametalrobot](#): > > Of course there is extensive treatment and lots of therapy before any gender “altering” surgery is done. The psychiatrist who end up recommending the surgery wouldn’t get nearly as much money if they sent said patients to surgery and hormones right away. It’s obvious that you’re fairly ignorant on this subject. There are many sliding scale or low cost options for transsexual people who need to satisfy a therapy requirement. For hormones alone, there are clinics in most large cities that offer hormones replacement therapy on an “informed consent” basis, not requiring previous therapy on the matter at all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-anti-gay-marriage-activists-object-to-transexual-marriage/494149.md?page=2)