# Do any lefties \*really\* want to remove religion from all public life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786 "2003-08-21T22:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/41 "2003-08-22T18:07:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > I am a leftie, and my answer is no. > I cannot see how the 10 commandments **so** offend people so. > Its like the world will be destroyed just because they are on display! \*\* From what I’ve been hearing in the news, the right-wingers are the ones pitching a fit. That hard-headed judge and his cronies are the ones who seem to think “the world will be destroyed” if they are removed.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/42 "2003-08-22T18:22:25Z")
I’ll admit that I have, more than once, wished that religion could be banned from the public sphere. There are very few things as annoying as having someone’s religious views shoved in your face. On the other hand, I know it isn’t doable and that I’m only seething because some bozo is overstepping his or her bounds. For the record, I’m not a lefty. I’m a… um… I’m ambidextrous. 😃 Julie ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/43 "2003-08-22T19:19:08Z")
I have a big problem with religion in “public life,” which I take to mean government. Historically, governments have used religion as its tool. For example, religion gets the rap for being the cause of many wars. A deeper reading of history usually reveals that said wars have a political cause, and that religion was used to stir up the populace. Religion is also used by governments to repress the population, to suppress dissent, and, in extreme cases, to eliminate part of the population. I would submit that religion, along with tribalism, nationalism, have been the primary instruments by which governments coerce the populace to further the aims of the power hungry and the greedy. Religion performs many good and useful functions in human life, and I do not have a problem with that. It is a dangerous thing let politicians get their hands on it, however. Even a benign politician can put in place something that a demagogue can later use to skewer anything he considers an obstacle. And certainly a guy like Moore is trouble you can see from a mile away. His is a literal bully pulpit, or at least a bully bench. As a dangling thought, I am chilled when I hear that Bush does not consider atheists to be citizens. This is not the kind of person I want at the head of my government. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/44 "2003-08-22T20:22:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kelly5078 \* > \*\*As a dangling thought, I am chilled when I hear that Bush does not consider atheists to be citizens. This is not the kind of person I want at the head of my government. \*\* Actually, the statement you are probably thinking of is attributed to Bush’s father, and many think it’s untrue that he said it. I’m on the fence about whether he said it or not, personally. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/45 "2003-08-22T20:38:11Z")
My bad, **Revtim**. I’m guilty of perpetuating confusion. So let the dangling thougt fall off, and I stand by the rest of my post. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/46 "2003-08-22T22:26:54Z")
Known Leftie here. I’d have to say that if it was entirely up to me, people would keep their religion to themselves. Zip, zero, nada. No God references of any kind, no religious references of any kind in, on, or around anything having to do with government, from local to national. It just ain’t fittin’. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/47 "2003-08-22T23:03:02Z")
Well, I’m a centrist myself, I just happen to occupy the spot that the center will occupy in about thirty years. You’re not allowed to kill 'em, so you have to outlast 'em. Mostly I think us progressive types should exhibit the maximum acceptable tolerance on this sort of thing. Cut 'em as much slack as we can. No need to quack about Xmas scenes, stuff like that, let 'em enjoy. I know the Troglodyte Right would like to roll back the calender, but I think it is beyond thier reach, so I don’t feel a need to keep a close eye on thier shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/48 "2003-08-22T23:24:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*I don’t recall anything from “lefties” specifically - certainly not from politicians. But certainly there have been many threads and posts in the Pit in which people have expressed irritation at seeing Christians praying in public, or having religious bumper stickers or other paraphernalia. So I would have to think there is at least an undercurrent of support for removing religion from public life. \*\* Given that we’ve had people insist that “freedom of religion” necessarily implies “freedom FROM religion,” I think your assessment is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/49 "2003-08-22T23:30:54Z")
My opinion is pretty much that we should either reflect _all_ religions wherever any one is represented in the governmental sphere (which is impossible), or just have none at all. Kind of like “You can’t eat candy in class if you don’t bring enough for everyone.” I guess that’s just some of the socialist in me showing through. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_Mexico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f6c823/32.png) [@Roger\_Mexico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_Mexico)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/50 "2003-08-23T00:08:28Z")
Moore is such a hypocrite. It says right on his monument, “Thou shalt make no graven image.” He has made a graven image of the 10 commandments, so god should strike him dead. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/51 "2003-08-23T16:42:38Z")
I keep my religion and my politics separate(God doesn’t tell me who to vote for), so I think religion and politics should be kept separate(am i spelling this right?) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/52 "2003-08-23T16:48:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*I keep my religion and my politics separate(God doesn’t tell me who to vote for), so I think religion and politics should be kept separate(am i spelling this right?) \*\* Yes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/53 "2003-08-23T18:10:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > \*\*I am a leftie, and my answer is no. > I cannot see how the 10 commandments **so** offend people so. > Its like the world will be destroyed just because they are on display! \*\* Funny that you would call yourself a leftie, **vanilla** , when you’re an [admitted member](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139234) of the [John Birch Society](http://www.jbs.org/), which I’ve _never_ heard referred to as a “leftie” organization. Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![jmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmonster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/54 "2003-08-24T03:42:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\* > Mostly I think us progressive types should exhibit the maximum acceptable tolerance on this sort of thing. Cut 'em as much slack as we can. No need to quack about Xmas scenes, stuff like that, let 'em enjoy. I know the Troglodyte Right would like to roll back the calender, but I think it is beyond thier reach, so I don’t feel a need to keep a close eye on thier shenanigans. \*\* But can you be sure… ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/55 "2003-08-24T05:17:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsgoddess \* > \*\*I’ll admit that I have, more than once, wished that religion could be banned from the public sphere. There are very few things as annoying as having someone’s religious views shoved in your face. \*\* So… Is that your view on religion? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/56 "2003-08-24T05:21:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Roger\_Mexico \* > \*\*Moore is such a hypocrite. It says right on his monument, “Thou shalt make no graven image.” He has made a graven image of the 10 commandments, so god should strike him dead. \*\* You’re kidding, right? Everyone knows that the commandment in question refers to making statues or idols as objects of worship. This is vastly different from merely erecting a monument, as Moore did. While Moore’s action may have been objectionable, it hardly violates the “Thou shalt make no graven image” commandment. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/57 "2003-08-24T05:40:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > You’re kidding, right? Everyone knows that the commandment in question refers to making statues or idols as objects of worship. This is vastly different from merely erecting a monument, as Moore did. > > While Moore’s action may have been objectionable, it hardly violates the “Thou shalt make no graven image” commandment. Any sentence about a Bible verse that starts off with “Everyone knows that…” is going to get you in trouble, and the Second Commandment is even worse than most in this regard. (To begin with, it’s debated whether or not it’s even the _Second_ Commandment, or the third, or part of the first.) Exactly what it means to make a “graven image” has been the subject of _huge_ debate among Christians. Strict Calvinists think pictures of Christ constitute “graven images”. It’s simply impossible to say what all Christians will decide is meant by the prohibition on “graven images”; seeing some of the news photos of people huddled in prayer around the monument, it’s easy to imagine some other Christians calling this a form of idolatry. All of which is an excellent argument for the government staying the hell out of it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/58 "2003-08-24T15:00:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > \*\*So… Is that your view on religion? \*\* Is _what_ my view on religion? That there are people who shove it in my face? Absolutely. Julie ---
**Author:** ![Hammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/bc79bd/32.png) [@Hammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hammer)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/59 "2003-08-24T16:51:19Z")
Conservative Athiest here. Seems to me to much is made of it and the real danger is that you will get a new amendment to the constitution that allows some official recognition of God. As someone else pointed out, government intrudes so many aspects of public life it’s hard to seperate. I suspect before, “In God We Trust”, is stripped from the dollar bill, there will be some type of amendment allowing for it. Don’t think it can happen? look at the congressional response to the pledge flap. Honest question, are there any admitted Atheist in Congress? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786/60 "2003-08-24T17:39:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hammer \* > \*\*Honest question, are there any admitted Atheist in Congress? \*\* Good question. I personally don’t know. It could be that atheism is the last thing that might make a person un-electable. Blacks, homosexuals, women; they all were once un-electable but thankfully those bigoted days are past. Unless you don’t believe in god… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-lefties-really-want-to-remove-religion-from-all-public-life/196786.md?page=4)