# Do any modern militaries still conspicuously mark their medics with white helmets, armbands and sush **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999 "2014-12-23T06:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/1 "2014-12-23T06:30:06Z")
[Like this.](https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRVXaXpPMxE1-O6d4Ik_UUkdvkrYQasWp6_djs6K1TbA4uy8U-G) Does anyone still mark such critical personnel and just hope that the other side will be…_.Gentlemanly_? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/2 "2014-12-23T07:15:29Z")
This British medic has the white armband. She’s got a rifle too. > **[Face to face with my military heroes](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/andrewpierce/6641162/Face-to-face-with-my-military-heroes.html)** > > It was a real honour to meet generations of army medics, says Andrew Pierce. Everywhere you turned, another breathtaking act of heroism was being retold. arm bands and blue hats for UN medics [http://i.alalam.ir/news/Image/original/2013/12/19/alalam\_635230860943406498\_25f\_4x3.jpg](http://i.alalam.ir/news/Image/original/2013/12/19/alalam_635230860943406498_25f_4x3.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/3 "2014-12-23T07:20:41Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This British medic has the white armband. She’s got a rifle too. > [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/andrewpierce/6641162/Face-to-face-with-my-military-heroes.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/andrewpierce/6641162/Face-to-face-with-my-military-heroes.html) Pfft. Ninja’d. You even linked to the exact same article I was going to post. Damn your speedy hands! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/4 "2014-12-23T07:22:20Z")
[![](http://military-vehicle-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/362.jpg) ](http://military-vehicle-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/362.jpg) UN white medical vehicle. Looks heavily plated. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/5 "2014-12-23T07:23:55Z")
Google has a few more images of medical personnel. That are available. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/6 "2014-12-23T07:42:48Z")
I don’t see any obvious medical markings on these modern US medics. [http://www.militarymoulage.com/blog/2012/09/army-medical-initiatives-serve-in-saving-lives/](http://www.militarymoulage.com/blog/2012/09/army-medical-initiatives-serve-in-saving-lives/) There’s a WWII medic on that same page. Quite a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/7 "2014-12-23T12:14:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I don’t see any obvious medical markings on these modern US medics. > [http://www.militarymoulage.com/blog/2012/09/army-medical-initiatives-serve-in-saving-lives/](http://www.militarymoulage.com/blog/2012/09/army-medical-initiatives-serve-in-saving-lives/) > > There’s a WWII medic on that same page. Quite a difference. It is a surprisingly grey area of land warfare, but generally “if medical teams are incorporated into combat units and their medical personnel bear arms and take a direct part in hostilities, they are not entitled to protection” (Henckaerts & Doswald-Beck, 2005, p. 85). Since medics in the US Military are “combat medics” and are not restricted from engaging the enemy in hostile acts, they are not entitled to protection under the Geneva Conventions. If they were to wear arm bands, it would be considered perfidy. Cite: Henckaerts, J. & Doswald-Beck, L. (2005). Customary International Humanitarian Law. Vol 1, 79–104. Cambridge: CUP ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/8 "2014-12-23T12:21:51Z")
We _do_ still mark vehicles and facilities, though. [http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/c/images/2013/01/04/277493/original.jpg](http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/c/images/2013/01/04/277493/original.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/9 "2014-12-23T14:02:21Z")
The people the United States has been fighting in recent years rarely distinguish between soldiers and civilians; why should they distinguish between regular troops and medics? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/10 "2014-12-23T14:09:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The people the United States has been fighting in recent years rarely distinguish between soldiers and civilians; why should they distinguish between regular troops and medics? :rolleyes: Not that old chestnut again. As an aside, I often wonder why cross and cresent and the Star of David are used, because they also are the insignia of active military units and formations. We should just insist that the [Rod of Asclepius be used instead.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/11 "2014-12-23T14:24:26Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :rolleyes: Not that old chestnut again. Considering the events in your country last week, are you sure you want to start this argument? That’s the nature of asymmetric warfare: no front and no rear, no clear difference between soldier and civilian, neither side showing much interest in observing old rules of law designed for pitched battles between European armies. That’s just the way it is. Do you think medical insignia on a Taliban member would stop a U.S. drone strike? Of course not. And the opposite is true as well. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/12 "2014-12-23T14:51:29Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > It is a surprisingly grey area of land warfare, but generally “if medical teams are incorporated into combat units and their medical personnel bear arms and take a direct part in hostilities, they are not entitled to protection” (Henckaerts & Doswald-Beck, 2005, p. 85). Since medics in the US Military are “combat medics” and are not restricted from engaging the enemy in hostile acts, they are not entitled to protection under the Geneva Conventions. If they were to wear arm bands, it would be considered perfidy. > > Cite: > Henckaerts, J. & Doswald-Beck, L. (2005). Customary International Humanitarian Law. Vol 1, 79–104. Cambridge: CUP I wondered about the photo of the British medic. Armband and carrying a weapon. That does seem like a contradiction with the .Geneva Conventions. But as you said, its a grey area. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/13 "2014-12-23T15:54:29Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Considering the events in your country last week, are you sure you want to start this argument? Yes, I do actually. The difference is that the masterminds and their henchmen are acted against by the police and the military operating under direction from competent authorities. The terrorists who are captured are punished after a judicial process, where they have access to Counsel , the chance to confront the witnesses and evidence against them and raise their own defences, and to challenge any convictions before superior Courts. You don’t fuck basic norms of civilised behaviour in the ass just because you are faced with scum. Otherwise you become scum yourself. > [@](#): > > That’s the nature of asymmetric warfare: no front and no rear, no clear difference between soldier and civilian, neither side showing much interest in observing old rules of law designed for pitched battles between European armies. That’s just the way it is. Do you think medical insignia on a Taliban member would stop a U.S. drone strike? Of course not. And the opposite is true as well. And I think you have stumbled upon the basic issue. They are not European or European descended or white. They are brown, sub human savages, fuck em. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/14 "2014-12-23T16:05:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wondered about the photo of the British medic. Armband and carrying a weapon. That does seem like a contradiction with the .Geneva Conventions. But as you said, its a grey area. Wiki article on [Combat medic.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_medic) > [@](#): > > In modern times, most combat medics carry a personal weapon, to be used to protect themselves and the wounded or sick in their care.[3] When and if they use their arms offensively, they then sacrifice their protection under the Geneva Conventions. These medics are specifically trained. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/15 "2014-12-23T16:14:57Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Yes, I do actually. The difference is that the masterminds and their henchmen are acted against by the police and the military operating under direction from competent authorities. The terrorists who are captured are punished after a judicial process, where they have access to Counsel , the chance to confront the witnesses and evidence against them and raise their own defences, and to challenge any convictions before superior Courts. You don’t fuck basic norms of civilised behaviour in the ass just because you are faced with scum. Otherwise you become scum yourself. At what point did I ever disagree with that? All I was trying to say is that the people who attacked that school - who are part of the same organization that the United States has been fighting - did not differentiate between soldiers and civilians, in the sense that they killed civilians as if they were soldiers. Someone who would do that would hardly abstain from shooting a soldier who happened to be wearing a medical corps armband, n’es pas? Also - this whole thing where you jump in to defend the honor of any Muslim you think is being slandered anywhere on this board? It’s growing old. How about from now on, we just assume you said something and move on with the conversation? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/16 "2014-12-23T16:28:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > At what point did I ever disagree with that? > > All I was trying to say is that the people who attacked that school - who are part of the same organization that the United States has been fighting - did not differentiate between soldiers and civilians, in the sense that they killed civilians as if they were soldiers. Someone who would do that would hardly abstain from shooting a soldier who happened to be wearing a medical corps armband, n’es pas? Very true. And I will go further and point out that some of the students who were murdered were being given first aid training by Army Medics and a military doctor, all of who were also killed. That does not mean that the Army should stop wearing appropriate insignia when it is called for. > [@](#): > > Also - this whole thing where you jump in to defend the honor of any Muslim you think is being slandered anywhere on this board? It’s growing old. How about from now on, we just assume you said something and move on with the conversation? :rolleyes: Defend the honour of? Are you a southern gentleman from the pages of Gone with the Wind? Stating a different and unpopular opinion does not equate to “jumping in the defend the honor (sic) if any muslim”. I don’t recall defending Taliban or ISIS. Or Al Qaeda. Or any other nefarious asshole. These guys are (nominally at least) muslims last time I checked. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/17 "2014-12-23T16:42:29Z")
Excuse me? That’s how this conversation started. I said something critical of the Taliban, and you called what I said an “old chestnut”. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/18 "2014-12-23T17:04:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Excuse me? That’s how this conversation started. I said something critical of the Taliban, and you called what I said an “old chestnut”. No. You said > [@](#): > > The people the United States has been fighting in recent years rarely distinguish between soldiers and civilians; why should they distinguish between regular troops and medics? There were Taliban fighters in Iraq and Libya or Yemen? The Taliban are also hardly the only group fighting ISAF in Afghanistan. There have been a multitude of groups in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting over the last 13 years, with different motivations, ideologies, and actions. Its simplistic in the extreme to paint them with the same broad brush. Iraq was a mostly urban insurgency, undertaken by a fairly educated populace. Afghanistan is a rural internal security problem, characterised by organizations which are based in and gain support from countryside. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/19 "2014-12-23T17:06:18Z")
**Moderator Note** The topic of this thread is medics and their uniforms. This hijack into current events, modern warfare, and politics is way off topic, and many of the comments are not at all appropriate for GQ. Please stick to the topic at hand and take all other comments to their appropriate forums. Failure to do so will result in this thread being closed. No warnings issued. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999/20 "2014-12-23T19:21:00Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Wiki article on [Combat medic.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_medic) That is like saying a church has protection under the Geneva Convention until someone inside decides to to shoot at the enemy. Or that it that a hospital is protected until we decide to store ammunition in the basement. Or that an ambulance is protected until the occupants decide to commit hostile acts. Yes, they all lose their protection. But they don’t get to just hide behind that protection up to the point at which they decide to start shooting. That is perfidy. A medic does not get to enjoy the protections of the convention by wearing an armband, and then just decide to start shooting. They can’t tag in and out of combat like that. “I’m shooting”, “Don’t shoot, Arm Band!!!”, “Game on! I’m shooting again!” “Arm band!” “Game on!” Imagine an arm-wearing medic patrolling with an infantry unit. The enemy specifically avoids shooting the medic who then suddenly decides he/she is going to join in the fight and start shooting. That kind of conduct undermines the system and puts all medical personnel and wounded soldiers at risk. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-modern-militaries-still-conspicuously-mark-their-medics-with-white-helmets-armbands-and-sush/707999.md?page=2)