# Do any of you know what "science" is? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298 "2009-07-26T05:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/81 "2009-07-26T20:53:34Z")
> [@SSG\_Schwartz](#): > > Mmmm [Kari](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kari_Byron). > > SSG Schwartz I am ashamed of you, Sergeant. Was that seriously the best picture of Kari you could find? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/82 "2009-07-26T20:56:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, problems are so much easier to handle when we redefine them as not-problems. Science is no longer capable of saying that a brain tumor is a medical illness. Rather, it’s been redefined as non-physiotypical brain functioning. Tumors and non-tumors are simply arbitrary constructions that society imposes upon people. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/83 "2009-07-26T21:01:41Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > I am ashamed of you, Sergeant. Was that seriously the best picture of Kari you could find? Yeah, put some [effort](http://www.karibyronfansite.com/photos/inthepress.php) into it. Kari deserves it. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > Science is no longer capable of saying that a brain tumor is a medical illness. Rather, it’s been redefined as non-physiotypical brain functioning. Tumors and non-tumors are simply arbitrary constructions that society imposes upon people. Maybe I’m not actually smelling burnt toast, but hyperthermodynamized prandial gluten product! ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/84 "2009-07-26T21:04:02Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Heh, I read as far as where **SmashtheState** said Queen Elizabeth II was all motivated by greed and rage and lust and selfishness. She’s not exactly the first person I’d point to as an example of those qualities. Icke’s lizard sense might’ve been off on that one. I just can’t believe he said those awful things about Boxcar Willie. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/85 "2009-07-26T21:36:43Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Wait, what’s impaired mean? I’m surprised to hear that Deaf people aren’t impaired. They aren’t within the confines of the deaf community. A lot of them think of problems communicating with hearing people as basically no different from going to a country where people speak another language. I’m willing to leave the whole issue up to the deaf person in question, because nobody thinks deafness messes with insight. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/86 "2009-07-26T21:58:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You think you’re an amazing, unappreciated genius and we’re all fools. We get it. You’ve made yourself clear. The sooner you fuck off, the happier we’ll all be; you won’t have to put up with your inferiors and their obsession with facts and evidence, and we’ll be rid of you. If he thinks this, he’s not wrong. **Smash** is smarter than–easily–90% of the other posters here. Including you. > [@SmashTheState](#): > > Are you really so stupid that you honestly believe archetypal psychology, post-modern critiques of material monism, and philosophical exploration of the links between shamanism and schizophrenia is the same as saying “aliens built the pyramids”? Regrettably, **Smash** , he is, and he’s far from the only one on this board who would prefer to be taken in by the rankest counterfeit (_Mythbusters_, evolutionary psychology) than actually engage in real-deal examination of the philosophy of science. As with much in our modern age, science among the masses has been reduced to just another menu option in our commodity fetishism. Science for those on this board is preferring _Mythbusters_ to _The Oprah Show_. It is condemning those who have different tastes in bath soap as being “anti-science.” It is the confusion of technical competence with understanding of the world (Of course I’m a scientist! I have a BS in mechanical engineering from Bumblefuck State after all.). What many on this board flatter themselves is their scientific cast of mind is little more than identification with a marketing demographic. “Do you like computers and _Mythbusters_? Then you’ll love Bill Maher’s latest movie _Religulous_! Buy your ticket today!” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/87 "2009-07-26T22:03:30Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > **Smash** is smarter than–easily–90% of the other posters here. Including you. For fuck’s sake, why don’t you go away, too? Smash is a juvenile jackass with delusions of competency, he’s a ranting nutball without even a cursory understanding of most of the concepts he talks about. That you endorse his stupidity says nothing good about you, and if you believe that he’s somehow superior to most of the posters here, then by all means go find some similar Frothing Loony Anarchist website and go post there. > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > As with much in our modern age, science among the masses has been reduced to just another menu option in our commodity fetishism. Science for those on this board is preferring _Mythbusters_ to _The Oprah Show_. It is condemning those who have different tastes in bath soap as being “anti-science.” So not only do you not understand epistemology, critical thinking or the scientific method, you also don’t grok the SD. Fine, what’s stopping you from going away? Or are you just another malcontent who gets their jollies by posting to a message board that they hate? Seriously, you can start going away any time now. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/88 "2009-07-26T22:04:15Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > If he thinks this, he’s not wrong. **Smash** is smarter than–easily–90% of the other posters here. Including you. Heh. Generally such statements lead to problems but hey I’m having trouble with disputing you. I think **SmashtheState** has overreached with an argument that has SOME merit, but not as much merit as he believes it to have. > [@](#): > > Regrettably, **Smash** , he is, and he’s far from the only one on this board who would prefer to be taken in by the rankest counterfeit (_Mythbusters_, evolutionary psychology) than actually engage in real-deal examination of the philosophy of science. > > As with much in our modern age, science among the masses has been reduced to just another menu option in our commodity fetishism. Science for those on this board is preferring _Mythbusters_ to _The Oprah Show_. It is condemning those who have different tastes in bath soap as being “anti-science.” It is the confusion of technical competence with understanding of the world (Of course I’m a scientist! I have a BS in mechanical engineering from Bumblefuck State after all.). What many on this board flatter themselves is their scientific cast of mind is little more than identification with a marketing demographic. “Do you like computers and _Mythbusters_? Then you’ll love Bill Maher’s latest movie _Religulous_! Buy your ticket today!” Brilliant. If only I were as smart as the two of you, I’d have said this years ago. 😉 I’ve been trying to say the same for a long time but haven’t ever been able to encapsulate it so artfully. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/89 "2009-07-26T22:05:19Z")
**FinnAgain** Seriously intellectual overreach is the primary vice of this message board. **SmashtheState** fits right in. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/90 "2009-07-26T22:06:50Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > They aren’t within the confines of the deaf community. A lot of them think of problems communicating with hearing people as basically no different from going to a country where people speak another language. > > I’m willing to leave the whole issue up to the deaf person in question, because nobody thinks deafness messes with insight. I’m still not grasping how they’re not impaired, if you put a deaf person and a sensory-typical person into a forest at night I’d give the advantage to the one who can hear what direction the bear is coming from. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/91 "2009-07-26T22:09:11Z")
Hearing a bear (or a car) is only like learning a different language. Knowing that a one ton hunk of metal and glass is barreling down at you is no different from being able to order a ham sandwich in Paris. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/92 "2009-07-26T22:43:18Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > the reply seemed to be semantics, not science. Semantics is a science. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/93 "2009-07-26T23:09:05Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Parents do not want their children to grow up to be shamans, and often both parents and shamans themselves have some years of resisting it before they finally give in to the gods / spirits. _Mamas, don’t let your babies grow up to be shamans Don’t let ‘em smoke mushrooms and eat alkaloids Get ‘em an X-box and make ‘em shoot droids Mamas don’t let your babies grow up to be shamans Their spirits’ll roam and they’ll only come home When their laundry needs droppin’ off._ -W. Haggard, M. Nelson ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/94 "2009-07-26T23:52:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > For someone who claims sophistication, you are simply incredibly naive and ignorant on the subject. Spend some time talking to real severe schizophrenics before you minimize their disabilty. Glamorizing schizophrenia is like trying to look on the bright side of cancer. Exactly. There’s nothing “beautiful mindish” about schizophrenia. It’s a fucking horrible disease, one I wouldn’t wish upon anyone, and anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know what they’re talking about. And I’m not saying this as a scientist, but as someone on the so-called spectrum of schizophrenic disorders. Gay people kill themselves because of the loneliness and pain associated with familial rejection. Schizophrenics kill themselves because they are no longer in control of their minds. Rejection is the least of their worries. They’re worried about the Hamburgler waiting to kill them on the other side of the street, or the light fixtures that curse at them through high-frequency Morse code. Or how about they don’t have hallucinations, but they can’t stop screaming “Angel in the centerfold!!!” while spinning around like a top with a toliet plunger on their heads. What kind of gifts are these people providing us, other than comic fodder? Maybe people glamorize and romanticize certain neurological disorders to feel better about their own diagnoses? I don’t know what it is, but I’ve never been tempted to do this. I was devastated when I was labeled. My mission in life right now is to do everything it takes to keep the big S way the hell away from me. I pity the sick people who think that they and they alone hold the truth, and the rest of us are the ones who are crazy. The one who’s able to keep a job and support themselves and be reasonable good company…that’s the one I want to be. Be a shaman as much as you like, but don’t deride me for choosing health and function. My gift to society won’t be found in my inarticulate mumblings and catatonic excitement, but in my role as a scientist and whatever else I can do as a healthy, capable member of society. I won’t let it be any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/95 "2009-07-27T00:12:57Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’m still not grasping how they’re not impaired, if you put a deaf person and a sensory-typical person into a forest at night I’d give the advantage to the one who can hear what direction the bear is coming from. Okay, perhaps not a great example. I was trying to point out that if we have a definition for illness, we can decide whether something is an illness or not based upon that definition, not upon how we feel about it. So, lose the examples, but the point still stands. Why _wouldn’t_ schizophrenia be considered a mental illness, given that it is a condition that affects the mind and is not present in ordinary healthy people? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/96 "2009-07-27T00:13:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think **SmashtheState** has overreached with an argument that has SOME merit, but not as much merit as he believes it to have. Yup. The fact that “insanity” is a social construct doesn’t mean that it isn’t grounded in actual brain disfunction. “Disfunction” is, of course, itself a loaded term, since ALL human brains are limited by varying degrees in their ability to construct useful internal simulations of external physical reality. (And by “useful” I mean “capable of generating accurate predictions of future environmental conditions.”) The “disfunction” of schizophrenia is a relative condition, not an absolute one. However, that does not make it any less real. **StS** seems to have read too much post-modern theory without understanding either its flaws or limitations. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/97 "2009-07-27T00:26:05Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Why _wouldn’t_ schizophrenia be considered a mental illness, given that it is a condition that affects the mind and is not present in ordinary healthy people? I suspect \*\*StS \*\*would argue that “ordinary” and “healthy” are themselves loaded terms designed to construct a system of difference (or, perhaps, _différance_ ;)) with the intended consequence of priveleging certain ways of being (and thinking) as a dominance strategy. And, I would argue, he wouldn’t be entirely wrong. However, where he’s really missing the boat is assuming that because “mental illness” can be used as a dominance strategy, that that’s ALL it is. And that there are no fixed criteria for valuing some forms of cognition over others – that all epistomologies are equally valid. I would argue that any form of cognition that leads to an internal representation of the external world that consistently fails to demonstrate any predictive value is OBJECTIVELY flawed. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/98 "2009-07-27T00:28:53Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > If he thinks this, he’s not wrong. **Smash** is smarter than–easily–90% of the other posters here. Including you. You’re welcome to leave, too. When you grow up the board will still probably be around in one form or another. Really, if you two of you are so smart, and we’re so stupid, why are you wasting your time here? Please feel free to leave. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/99 "2009-07-27T00:30:13Z")
\*Revelation??? \* ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298/100 "2009-07-27T00:33:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Batman’s a scientist. And apparently on many lists of great fictional detectives, acording to some recent threads that I don’t care to look up. I just don’t get it. All HIS villains dress in clown costumes. You don’t have to be fuckin Sherlock Holmes to solve crimes in Gotham. As to the OP? Starkers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-of-you-know-what-science-is/504298.md?page=6)