# Do any other authors do this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689 "2006-06-22T06:33:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/21 "2006-06-22T13:22:59Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Possibly the most egregious example is Isaac Asimov’s “Murder at the ABA”, where he put himself in as a minor character in the book, and even slowly establishes the backstory that Isaac had to go to a convention under orders to write a murder mystery about it, and that when an author of his vague acquaintance (the protagonist of the book) becomes embroiled in a real-life murder, the acquaintance will write up his notes once the case is solved, and Isaac will edit them into his book. Asimov also made throw-away comic references to himself in a few of the “Black Widowers” stories, and used a caricature of himself as the science-writer guest in one of the stories (“No Man Pursueth”, IIRC). ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/22 "2006-06-22T13:36:13Z")
The Late Great Ed McBain often referred to the movie The Birds in his 87th Precient mysteries. The screenplay to The Birds was written by Evan Hunter, McBain’s alter ego. McBain also wrote in a non-87th mystery “Downtown” that the movie “Fuzz” was filmed in the protagonist’s hometown of Boston. “Fuzz” is an 87th precient mystery written by McBain. Kinky Friedman became a bestselling author writing a series of mysteries about a country western singer turned dectective named–what else?–Kinky Friedman ;j ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/23 "2006-06-22T13:51:06Z")
In George Pelecanos’ _Soul Circus_, the only book of his I’ve yet read (quite good, I’ll read more of him in future), one of the P.I. characters finds himself in a courtroom tracking someone down. There he very briefly encounters an unnamed court reporter (physically described in nothing approaching favorable terms) that is obviously Pelecanos – especially if you know what Pelecanos looks like. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/24 "2006-06-22T13:55:59Z")
The Gor books mention the existence of the Gor books once or twice - in _Assassin of Gor_ and _Fighting Slave of Gor_ for sure, and in the latter book I believe one of the characters claims to have met John Norman. Talking of breaking the fourth wall, I saw the other day the Wikipedia article on Loki from Marvel Comics, which mentioned that he is aware that he is a character in a comic. (So is the She-Hulk.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ErinPuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@ErinPuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ErinPuff)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/25 "2006-06-22T14:21:23Z")
Mercedes Lackey does it, sort of. I’m rereading _Bedlam’s Bard_ for the first time in years (I really need to go book shopping), and in the fourth chapter, the main character thinks, “Whoever came up with this should write a book. It’s better than half the fantasy schlock I’ve picked up lately–like telepathic horses, or ancient Aztec gods invading Dallas.” The telepathic horses and Aztec gods are references to two of Lackey’s other book series. A chapter earlier, there’s also a random appearance by a “Misty” from Tulsa, OK, who shows up to fangirl the main character and then leaves. That seems like a pretty obvious self-insertion, though at least she doesn’t become a recurring character like the self-insertion she did in the Valdemar books. That was about the time I stopped reading those. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/26 "2006-06-22T15:15:01Z")
When Frederick Dannay and Manfred Lee started collaborating, they hit on the idea of making the name of their detective and the name of their pseudonym the same: Ellery Queen. After a few books Ellery became an author working for a living as the author of the Ellery Queen mystery novels. In several of the books, characters have read his books or even have a whole shelf of them and that’s why they call him in to solve the mystery. When a secretary, Nikki Porter, was introduced in the Ellery Queen radio series, her character was later introduced into the print stories as well. (Many of what we now think of as basic parts of the Superman legend were also first introduced in the radio show and had to be brought into the comics.) In what was supposed to have been their last book, _The Finishing Stroke_ (Lee had developed enormous writer’s block), Ellery goes through a long flashback to 1929, when he had just published his first book, _The Roman Hat Mystery_ (the real first book of the series) and attends a house party that his publisher gives in celebration. Of course murder ensues. Later on, someone whose name I can’t think of and which will drive me crazy all day wrote a series of stories for _Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine_ with titles like “the Ellery Queen Murder Case” and “The John Dickson Carr Murder Case” in which someone who is a fan of the books has to solve a case that uses the tricks and tropes that the writer was famous for. But even this was anticipated all the way back in 1924, when Agatha Christie started writing a series of short stories (later collected in _Partners in Crime_) that were deliberate spoofs of the leading detective story writers of the day. Her heroes, Tommy and Tuppence Beresford, ran a detective agency and used the tricks and tropes of each writer, often by name, to solve the cases. The parodies were so nasty in spots that you have to wonder how Christie could turn around and write her own formulaic mysteries at the same time. There are probably a zillion other examples of mystery writers referencing mystery writers. Chandler’s name gets thrown around an awful lot, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/27 "2006-06-22T15:27:06Z")
I’m not sure the omniscient narrator is always supposed to be the author, but sure, it’s not uncommon. C. S. Lewis interjected himself into the _Chronicles of Narnia_, for instance–presumably to heighten the illusion that the stories had really happened and that he had been told about the Pevensie’s adventures by Lucy & her siblings. (It’s not clear to me how he found out about the events of _The Last Battle_ without being dead himself. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/28 "2006-06-22T16:28:30Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > In what was supposed to have been their last book, _ **The Finishing Stroke** _ (Lee had developed enormous writer’s block), Ellery goes through a long flashback to 1929, when he had just published his first book, _The Roman Hat Mystery_ (the real first book of the series) and attends a house party that his publisher gives in celebration. Of course murder ensues. My favorite one! (in no small way because of all the typography references) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/29 "2006-06-22T16:32:44Z")
In “Rosemary’s Baby” Rosemary mentions that other actors were working in road companies of {something or other} or _Drat! The Cat_. The latter musical was written by Ira Levin, who put a lot of real life details into the novel to make it seem real. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/30 "2006-06-22T17:10:38Z")
Hrm. If we take comic books into account Dave Sim in Cerebus eventually has (somewhere around issue 200 or so) the title character meet Dave himself. They converse in such a way that Sim convinces Cerebus that he’s the author and can do anything and that he’s the one responsible for everything bad and good that’s ever happened to Cerebus. What’s special about that is Sim’s contention regarding that conversation. He states that his entire intent with the series was to get to the point where he and his creation communicate with each other. He says he had that idea in the late 70s when he started and worked for decades to get there. Woof, no wonder he went insane. Oh, and another Heinlein sighting. Again in ‘The Number of the Beast’ in the final bit “L’envoi” he himself appears as a waiter and various other guises with names that are anagrams of his name. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/31 "2006-06-22T17:20:02Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Later on, someone whose name I can’t think of and which will drive me crazy all day wrote a series of stories for _Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine_ with titles like “the Ellery Queen Murder Case” and “The John Dickson Carr Murder Case” in which someone who is a fan of the books has to solve a case that uses the tricks and tropes that the writer was famous for. Are you thinking of William Brittain’s “The Man Who Read \_\_\_\_\_” stories? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/32 "2006-06-22T18:14:13Z")
Forrest Gump met both Tom Hanks and Winston Groom in the godawful sequel _Gump & Co._ (which Groom admits without any embarassment [or need for] that he wrote only for the truckload of money delivered to his house for it). Groom’s across the street neighbor Fannie Flagg has used a little girl named Patty Neal in some of her books (_Fried Green Tomatoes_ and _Coming Attractions_ among others) though her age is different in each one. Patricia Neal is Fannie Flagg’s birth name. ---
**Author:** ![Tabula\_Rasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@Tabula\_Rasa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabula_Rasa)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/33 "2006-06-22T18:30:59Z")
Not a book, but in the Steve Martin film _The Jerk_ directed by Carl Reiner, it is director Carl Reiner who initiates the class action lawsuit about the Optigrab. Tabby ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/34 "2006-06-22T18:54:52Z")
> [@lachesis](#): > > oh yeah. i’m trying to remember the names of the writing duo who regularly plug their books. in their other books. > > ah, yes – Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child. in their Special Agent Pendergast series, they not only have one of the characters allegedly having written books about the adventures they experienced in prior books, but they even throw in titles of some of their other books as ones that characters are reading for entertainment. > > that was a bit disconcerting, the first time i ran into that. > > but dang, they still write bang-up stories as far as i’m concerned. can’t wait for the next installment. That’s the one I came in to mention. What’s really great is that they often reference their own books very dismissively as trashy fiction. Although one character is reading _The Ice Limit II_ which, while not existing, would make a helluva sequel, given the epilogue in the first book. And Pendergast needs to be in a \*good \* movie adaptation. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/35 "2006-06-22T19:07:59Z")
I’ve never actually read the book, but doesn’t Philip Roth’s _Operation Shylock_ involve Roth as a character? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/36 "2006-06-22T19:26:10Z")
It’s been a long time since I read it, but I believe that in an A. Bertram Chandler Grimes story, set in the Shakespeare Sector where reality is a bit tenuous, Grimes winds up on Chandler’s ship where Chandler is writing the Grimes stories. In a similar vein, in one of the Tarzan books Tarzan goes to Hollywood, winds up on the set of a Tarzan movie, and is told he isn’t right for the part. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/37 "2006-06-22T19:39:29Z")
In addition to Stephen King’s self references, he and his wife Tabitha reference each others fictional worlds regularly. Tabithas town of Nodd’s Ridge (I think, and am too lazy to go confirm right now) was originated in “Mrs. Todd’s Shortcut” written by Stephen, and in her book “One On One” the basketball team plays against both Castle Rock and Derry. There’s a ton of cross references if you’re looking for them. In “Lady Slings The Booze,” the protagonist Joe Quigley runs into Jake Stonebender of the Callahan series, who is a pretty close analogue of author Spider Robinson… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/38 "2006-06-22T19:40:03Z")
In a related vein, artists Brent Anderson and Alex Ross sometimes draw themselves (and writer Kurt Buseik) into the comic book _Astro City,_ usually as small-time crooks who get busted by one of the local supers. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/39 "2006-06-22T19:43:27Z")
The TV show **Bones** is based on anthropologist Kathy Reichs’s novels about Temperence Brennan. In the show, Brennan writes novels about the anthropologist/detective Kathy Reichs. And probably the most famous example in American Literature: > [@](#): > > YOU don’t know about me without you have read a book by the name of _The Adventures of Tom Sawyer_; but that ain’t no matter. That book was made by Mr. Mark Twain, and he told the truth, mainly. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/40 "2006-06-22T19:45:36Z")
No mention of the brilliant movie Adaptation yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689.md?page=3)