# Do any other authors do this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689 "2006-06-22T06:33:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/41 "2006-06-22T19:55:50Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Oh, and another Heinlein sighting. Again in ‘The Number of the Beast’ in the final bit “L’envoi” he himself appears as a waiter and various other guises with names that are anagrams of his name. Ah, that reminds me: Nabokov played the anagram game, too. There’s a Vivian Darkbloom in _Lolita_, a Vivian Bloodmark in _Speak Memory_, and a Mr. Vivian Badlook in _King, Queen, Knave_. I’ve only read _Lolita_, and I’m not sure it’s accurate to say that the Darkbloom character is a stand-in for him, but she collaborates with Claire Quilty and writes a book about him, just as Nabokov wrote the book about Humbert, and Humbert and Quilty are sort of dopplegangers. ---
**Author:** ![E.Thorp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@E.Thorp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E.Thorp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/42 "2006-06-22T20:14:51Z")
Nabokov also makes an appearance (unnamed IIRC, but unmistakably he) in _Pnin_. The most egregious example I’ve read recently is Gore Vidal in _The Smithsonian Institution_. The most obscure example I know of is the man in the brown mackintosh in _Ulysses_. Allegedly, that’s Joyce, painting himself in the corner. ---
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/43 "2006-06-22T20:18:59Z")
Keith Roberts’ collection \*\*‘Kaeti and Company’ \*\* features a young woman who turns up in different guises , but always with the same name and usually the same “supporting cast” of friends and lovers. The linking text has her discussing her part in the next story with Roberts himself and the book ends with her walking out of it into our world. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/44 "2006-06-22T20:41:38Z")
> [@ErinPuff](#): > > Mercedes Lackey does it, sort of. I’m rereading _Bedlam’s Bard_ for the first time in years (I really need to go book shopping), and in the fourth chapter, the main character thinks, “Whoever came up with this should write a book. It’s better than half the fantasy schlock I’ve picked up lately–like telepathic horses, or ancient Aztec gods invading Dallas.” The telepathic horses and Aztec gods are references to two of Lackey’s other book series. > > A chapter earlier, there’s also a random appearance by a “Misty” from Tulsa, OK, who shows up to fangirl the main character and then leaves. That seems like a pretty obvious self-insertion, though at least she doesn’t become a recurring character like the self-insertion she did in the Valdemar books. That was about the time I stopped reading those. You mean Herald-Chronicler Myste, right ? She wrote a funny short story where her characters show up and complain about being mistreated. Diane Tregarde complains about being neglected, Talia about “the feet thing”, and so on. When they leave, Myste hangs back long enough to comment “at least they haven’t figured out that I’m your alter ego” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/45 "2006-06-22T21:09:58Z")
> [@E. Thorp](#): > > The most egregious example I’ve read recently is Gore Vidal in _The Smithsonian Institution_. He not only does the same thing in _The Golden Age_ but gives himself the most (and most pretentious) dialogue when talking to Peter Sanford (the character introduced in _Washington D.C._ who as an old man visits Vidal at his villa in Italy). ---
**Author:** ![Cemetery\_Savior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Cemetery\_Savior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cemetery_Savior)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/46 "2006-06-22T21:23:15Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > He not only does the same thing in _The Golden Age_ but gives himself the most (and most pretentious) dialogue when talking to Peter Sanford (the character introduced in _Washington D.C._ who as an old man visits Vidal at his villa in Italy). Agreed on the pretentious comment. At first read (having not read much else byMr. Vidal), I thought it was meant to be funny. Upon reading other Vidal works…um…no. -Cem ---
**Author:** ![KJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b2d939/32.png) [@KJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJ)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/47 "2006-06-22T21:27:09Z")
Similar incidents seem to happen all the time in cartoons. In a cartoon I made a few years ago, the main character looks through his drawer to find a movie to watch, and the DVDs in his movie case are all short films that we made before making the cartoon. There are also references to the TV show The Simpsons in Futurama and vice versa. I also seem to recall something like this happening in the movie “Rocky & Bullwinkle.” (What? It was on TV, and there was nothing else on.) I don’t remember exactly how the scene goes, but Rocky & Bullwinkle (I think) get pulled over by a police officer played by John Goodman. After they get arrested for stealing the car, they try to explain that they’re really famous cartoon characters and they need to get where they’re going to save the world or something. The police officer says “Right. Sure you are, and I’m John Goodman.” ---
**Author:** ![E.Thorp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@E.Thorp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E.Thorp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/48 "2006-06-22T21:48:20Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > He not only does the same thing in _The Golden Age_ but gives himself the most (and most pretentious) dialogue when talking to Peter Sanford (the character introduced in _Washington D.C._ who as an old man visits Vidal at his villa in Italy). Hm. Maybe that’s the novel I was thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/49 "2006-06-22T21:56:56Z")
In Gurney Norman’s **Divine Right’s Trip** , a character in the story calls Norman to get them out of a sticky situation. A fictional Edgar Rice Burroughs was, iirc, the nephew of John Carter in ERB’s Carter books. And a confession–a couple years ago I wrote a short story (got a “laughed my ass off, but it is too full of SF in-jokes” rave rejection letter from Gordon Van Gelder at _F&SF_) that centered on the old cliche of SF writers getting their ideas from a little old lady in a certain town in the state of New York. When the little old lady dies and a young punk takes over and starts charging exhorbitant fees for each twelve-pack of ideas, SF writers are forced to start grinding out boring sequel novel after movie tie-in novelization after Robert Howard rip-off. This throws most all SF writers into a panic and they contact their man on the spot – an author who posts on this board – to look into the matter. Of course, had it sold, I would have contacted all the writers invovled to get their okay. So… hi, Chuck. 😃 Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/50 "2006-06-22T23:47:13Z")
The wonderfully whimsical and sometimes absurdist mystery author Edmund Crispin, who wrote mysteries featuring the eccentric Oxford professor Gervase Fen, goes a step further and often breaks the fourth wall, implying that Fen actually knows he’s in a novel! One of my favorite passages occurs in _The Moving Toyshop_ when Fen and a poet comrade have been knocked out and captured by a person or persons unknown. As Cadogan (the poet) groggily recovers from unconsciousness, he hears Fen talking to keep himself occupied: > [@Edmund Crispin's The Moving Toyshop](#): > > “Fen steps in,” said Fen. “The Return of Fen. A Don Dares Death (A Gervase Fen Story).” > > Cadogan moaned and opened his eyes. (…) Beside him Fen’s voice droned on (…) > > “Murder Stalks the University,” said Fen. “The Blood on the Mortarboard. Fen Strikes back.” > > “What’s that you’re saying?” Cadogan asked in a faint, rather gurgling voice. > > “My dear fellow, are you all right? I was making up titles for Crispin.” Later, while Fen and Cadogan are running around during a chase scene, Cadogan asks which direction they should head in. Fen suggests going “…Left … After all, Gollancz is publishing this book.” (Gollancz was Crispin’s left-leaning publishing house.) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/51 "2006-06-22T23:48:43Z")
I’m flattered. Of course, now that you know my secret, I will have to kill you. 🙂 If we’re moving to self-reference by actors, there are many. One of my favorites was in an episode of **Green Acres**. Lisa and Oliver go to see their congressman. Lisa asks him, “What actor are you? All politicians are actors these days.” The congressman says, “Lyle Talbot,” the actor playing the part. There was also **Ocean’s Twelve** , which had a lot of fun with the idea that Danny Ocean’s wife bore a strong resemblance to Julia Roberts. Going back, in **Gold Diggers of 1933** , Busby Berkeley, the director, watches Ruby Keeler, his biggest star, audition for him and says, “I can’t use you.” ---
**Author:** ![Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirror_Image_egamI_rorriM)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/52 "2006-06-23T00:24:34Z")
The authors Elizabeth Peters and Barbara Michaels are actually the same woman. A character in a Barbara Michaels book refers to Elizabeth Peters as one of her favorite authors. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/53 "2006-06-23T01:39:01Z")
In _The Three Coffins_, many people’s pick for the greatest locked-room mystery of all time, John Dickson Carr stops the action for a chapter to have Dr. Fell deliver The Locked Room Lecture, an examination of all the variations on how locked room mysteries could be pulled off in mysteries. And he starts it off with this: > [@](#): > > But, if you’re going to analyze impossible situations," interrupted Pettis, “why discuss detective fiction?” > > Because, said the doctor, frankly, “we’re in a detective story, and we don’t fool the reader by pretending we’re not. Let’s not invent elaborate excuses to drag in a discussion of detective stories. Let’s candidly glory in the noblest pursuits possible to characters in a book.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/54 "2006-06-23T01:54:50Z")
More John Barth: In in the first section of **Chimera** , Scheherazade conjures up a genie that is clearly Barth himself “a light-skinned fellow of 40 or so, smooth-shaven and bald as a roc’s egg. . . . [with] queer lenses that he wore in a frame over his eyes.” [url=http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/barth/images/barth-chimera.jpg}Here is Barth’s picture from the back cover. The champion movie dealing with this concept is **The Last Action Hero** , where Jack Slater runs into Arnold Schwartzeneggar. ---
**Author:** ![RonstarDeluxe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@RonstarDeluxe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RonstarDeluxe)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/55 "2006-06-23T02:00:30Z")
In a similar vein, but not quite the same, there was in 1988 an episode of ‘Doctor Who’ (a space / time travel adventure show) where the characters had travelled back to November 23rd 1963 (the date the very first episode was transmitted) and in one scene a TV continuity announcer is cut short whilst announcing: “This is BBC television, the time is quarter past five and Saturday viewing continues with an adventure in the new science fiction series Doc—” Ronnie ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/56 "2006-06-23T02:11:31Z")
Since comic books count, how about Gilbert Shelton? He drew himself into the Freak Brothers’ world from time to time; once I remember he claimed that Fat Freddy, Phineas and Freewheelin’ Franklin were based on real hippies and took his readers on a purported tour to the mansion he owned and let them live in. When he arrived and found that the Freaks had dismantled his house and sold it to buy drugs he went into a fit and had to be shot by a paramedic with a tranquilizer dart gun filled with thorazine… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/57 "2006-06-23T03:03:49Z")
Robert Anton Wilson used himself as a character in books he wrote. Philip Jose Farmer frequently had a character in his work that was based on himself. You could spot the character if his name had the initials “PF”. Whitley Strieber used himself as a character in his books, both fiction and what he stated was non-fiction. ---
**Author:** ![ululate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/59ef9b/32.png) [@ululate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ululate)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/58 "2006-06-23T03:27:56Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > Hrm. If we take comic books into account Dave Sim in Cerebus eventually has (somewhere around issue 200 or so) the title character meet Dave himself. While this sort of thing has happened plenty of times, I’m reminded as well of the reverse: Steve “Captain America” Rogers, looking to make a little money in his free time and having borderline superhuman hand-eye coordination, spent a good stretch as the illustrator of the Captain America comic book – which was played _ **absolutely straight** _. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/59 "2006-06-23T03:43:02Z")
Not that I’m published or anything, but I’ve got a character in a horror story who starts going crazy and thinks to himself, _“I must be the subject of a novel by some Stephen King wannabe hack. That sucks. In fact I think I’ll reach through the page right now and grab the reader and RIP HIS FUCKING HEART OUT!”_ It’s cute, but I don’t think it’ll make the final draft. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2006, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689/60 "2006-06-23T11:57:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Philip Jose Farmer frequently had a character in his work that was based on himself. You could spot the character if his name had the initials “PF”. Actually, he used the initials “PJF”, so his avatar had the same middle initial as well, as I pointed out back at the beginning of the thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-other-authors-do-this/361689.md?page=4)