# Do any physicists actually believe in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788 "2003-12-08T23:42:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/2bfe46/32.png) [@Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xavier)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/1 "2003-12-08T23:42:28Z")
I use physicists because they are the guys that study nature at the most fundamental level. I’ve heard a lot of physicists use the word “God” in thier descriptions of the universe, and I wonder what it really means to them. I know that a lot of people will say, “well, belief is belief and no-one is going to ridicule them”. Okay fine. But I mean do any physicists ever seriously take into consideration the possibility that there _may actually be a God_, some sort of being or thing that governs and/or creates the laws of nature? Aside from beliefs I mean. Actual skeptical analysis (or somewhat “rational” thinking) where they would admit to the _possibility_ of it? And what does the physics community at large have as a general _assumption_ about whether there _could_ be some form of being/thing such as God? Is the notion totally ridiculed? –I’m not trying to be silly here. I know that it is extremely difficult to even think of beggining to find some sort of “proof” for God - and since there is no proof there cannot be any reasonable expectation of a ratified response (by the community) to the idea (experimental data and all that). I just wanted to know whether the majority rule it out, out of hand. And whether any physicists have seriously argued for some acceptance of the possibility. Basically, what’s the debate going on amongst physicists about this thorny issue?– ---
**Author:** ![Headcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@Headcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/2 "2003-12-09T00:12:52Z")
None of the current big names in physics are religious, or believe in god in any literal sense. The heavy hitters of the past - Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Eddington, Planck, et al, were atheists or agnostics. Atheists and Deists argue over Einstein, each side claiming him as their own, but a thorough investigation of his writings makes it clear that he didn’t believe in god. A great book I suggest is Quantum Questions : Mystical Writings of the World’s Great Physicists - a collections of essays by the greatest physicists of the 20th century concerning god, spirituality, and metaphysical ponderings in general. Much of the writings are surprisingly poetic, and dare I say spiritual. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/3 "2003-12-09T01:00:05Z")
[About Isaac Newton’s religious beliefs.](http://members.aol.com/stevesnobelen/) ---
**Author:** ![myles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@myles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myles)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/4 "2003-12-09T01:09:53Z")
Right. Physicists tend to be atheistic. And mathematicians tend to be relatively theistic. This is due to the aristotilean/platonic split between physics and mathematics/logic. Physicists tend to see and observe the apparent absence of God. Whereas, mathematicians tend to create logical theorems to demonstrate the theoretical and hypothetical ability of a deistic entity to exist. Rationalistic logic itself imposes order from above and thus tends toward theism. Empirical science does not. Thus, the greatest logician of the century Kurt Godel (one of the three greatest logicians in world history) was deeply religious, whereas most physicists are not. That at least, is my theory. ---
**Author:** ![myles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@myles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myles)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/5 "2003-12-09T01:11:41Z")
As for Isaac Newton, it should be remembered that he was the most famous occultist of the seventeenth century, the vast majority of his work dealt with alchemy, astronomy, and apocalypticism, he spent his last years trying to write a geography of hell. ---
**Author:** ![daniel801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@daniel801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daniel801)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/6 "2003-12-09T01:17:32Z")
“And everything science has taught me–and continues to teach me–strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death.” –Werner Von Braun “Father of the V-2 Rocket and Space Exploration” (from the opening of _Gravity’s Rainbow_ by Thomas Pynchon) ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/7 "2003-12-09T01:21:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by daniel801 \* > \*\*“And everything science has taught me–and continues to teach me–strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death.” > –Werner Von Braun “Father of the V-2 Rocket and Space Exploration” > > (from the opening of _Gravity’s Rainbow_ by Thomas Pynchon) \*\* That counts as an _afterlife_, but not neccisarily _God_. To be really nitpicky; for all we know, Werner thought he was going to end up Valhalla, or the Elysian Fields. Heck, maybe he was even right. ---
**Author:** ![bbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@bbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbeaty)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/8 "2003-12-09T01:54:55Z")
Didn’t New Scientist magazine do some kind of recent poll of physics workers? I recall that the results were fairly high, like 1/3 of the people responding said that they were religious. (But was that physicists? Or physical scientists including bio/chem etc.?) I recall that the CSICOP site had an article about this topic, and they found that the least religious scientists were the psychologists, not the physicists. ---
**Author:** ![bbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@bbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbeaty)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/9 "2003-12-09T02:03:06Z")
Of course “being religious” doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with believing in a male Christian god (Jehova.) How many physicists believe in a Goddess? Or how many are Buddhists, Taoists, or any of the non-god religions? As Ranchoth points out, belief in spiritual topics like “The Afterlife” doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with god (Jehova) or goddess or Hindu multiple gods. I think you have to ask about Jehova specifically, not “The Creator” or similar, since some physicists might believe in gods which always existed with no beginning or end. Hmmm. I wonder how many physicists believe in paranormal topics in general, topics like Christianity, afterlife, “god,” or any similar things. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/10 "2003-12-09T03:09:03Z")
The existance or nonexistance of God is apparently a question beyond the scope of physics: That is to say, if God does not exist, then physics cannot demonstrate that He does not exist, and even if He does exist, it doesn’t appear that physics can demonstrate that, either. The physics community as a whole, therefore, does not make any assumptions one way or the other. All we can deal with, as physicists, is the laws of nature, and while it’s conceivable that a surpreme being might be able to supercede those laws, He certainly hasn’t shown any great inclination to do so. Of course, many physicists do personally believe in some form of Deity, for reasons not particularly connected to their scientific pursuits. But you seem to be excluding such beliefs from consideration. ---
**Author:** ![yguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@yguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yguy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/11 "2003-12-09T03:37:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Headcoat \* > \*\*The heavy hitters of the past - Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Eddington, Planck, et al, were atheists or agnostics. Atheists and Deists argue over Einstein, each side claiming him as their own, but a thorough investigation of his writings makes it clear that he didn’t believe in god. \*\* Then just who is it he figured “doesn’t play dice with the universe”? ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/12 "2003-12-09T04:11:25Z")
> [@](#): > > We find ourselves in a bewildering world. We want to make sense of what we see around us and to ask: What is the nature of the universe? What is our place in it and where did it and we come from? Why is it the way it is? > > … > > Up to now, most scientists have been too occupied with the development of new theories that describe _what_ the universe is to ask the question _why_. On the other hand, the people whose business it is to ask why, the philosophers, have not been able to keep up with the advance of scientific theories… > > However, if we do discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable in broad principle by everyone, not just a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists, and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we would know the mind of God. Hawking, _A Brief History of Time_ ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/13 "2003-12-09T04:47:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yguy \* > \*\*Then just who is it he figured “doesn’t play dice with the universe”? \*\* Einstein said “God don’t play dice”, arguing with Schrodinger about the need for probability in describing quantum mechanics.\* Why would an atheist/agnostic talk about God? God only knows. People have observed that ours is the first age to equate truth with factuality. Religious truth is not the same as scientific fact, nor is it incompatible. \*Or so sayeth Cecil, in his greatest column ever. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/14 "2003-12-09T05:22:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \* > \*\*That counts as an _afterlife_, but not neccisarily _God_. > > To be really nitpicky; for all we know, Werner thought he was going to end up Valhalla, or the Elysian Fields. > > Heck, maybe he was even right. \*\* Doesn’t belief in an afterlife imply belief in some kind of divinity? ---
**Author:** ![yguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eb9ed0/32.png) [@yguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yguy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/15 "2003-12-09T05:30:01Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by cornflakes \* > Einstein said “God don’t play dice”, arguing with Schrodinger about the need for probability in describing quantum mechanics. Why would an atheist/agnostic talk about God? God only knows._ Maybe because he was neither. “I believe in Spinoza’s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.” ~ A. Einstein ---
**Author:** ![Indefatigable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9d8465/32.png) [@Indefatigable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indefatigable)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/16 "2003-12-09T05:52:02Z")
Even if you understand quantum physics as far down as we understand it today, it doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a conscious being behind setting it all up. (Just because you can reverse-engineer a piece of software and figure out how it all works doesn’t mean you’ve disproved the existence of the programmer.) I know lots of scientists who are religious, physicists and cosmologists included. The nature of scientific logic is that you can’t disprove things, you can only prove them. There’s nothing there to stop anyone from believing in a god. The reason why scientists are generally thought of as being atheistic is because when you’re doing science, you don’t accept something as true unless you have evidence. Some scientists become non-religious because of that, i.e. not having any proof for the existence of God. But you don’t have to be a physicist to learn that way of thinking-- all scientists do. But that’s what faith is about… and anyone who wants to be religious generally does it without any solid evidence. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/17 "2003-12-09T06:30:15Z")
There are at least two physicists in America who are born-again Christians. I know this because they worked with my sister (also a physicist). From the way she told me about them, though - hell, from the _fact_ she told me about them - they would seem to be extremely rare in their field. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/18 "2003-12-09T06:39:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\*Doesn’t belief in an afterlife imply belief in some kind of divinity? \*\* The OP specifies “God,” i.e. The Judeo-Christian deity, “God.” (Aka Yahweh, aka Jehovah) The afterlife realms I mentioned aren’t run by _that_ deity, but by the Aesir and the Olympians, respectively. They would be called “gods,” but not “God.” And, conceivibly, if there was an afterlife where the souls of the dead wandered the Earth as ghosts, that might be seen an afterlife _without_ a “divinity” behind it. ---
**Author:** ![myles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@myles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myles)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/19 "2003-12-09T06:39:53Z")
Eh, I’ve seen weirder, I live across the hall from a genetics and biology major in college who is a passionate Biblical literalist and a firm Creationist, Flat-Earther, and Anti-Evolutionary. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788/20 "2003-12-09T13:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Headcoat \* > \*\*Atheists and Deists argue over Einstein, each side claiming him as their own, but a thorough investigation of his writings makes it clear that he didn’t believe in god. \*\* Not thorough enough, evidently. He specifically told my grandfather that he did believe in God, just not an anthropomorphic God. This was in 1939 and it’s been documented in various places. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-physicists-actually-believe-in-god/217788.md?page=2)