# Do any US states have a no-fault agreement like Ontario's? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 28, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600 "2008-08-28T20:39:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/1 "2008-08-28T20:39:09Z")
I live in Ontario, and under current insurance rules, in the event of an auto claim, each party recovers the cost of damages to their own vehicle from their own insurer, regardless of fault. Quebec and New Brunswick have similar agreements. So let’s say Mary rear-ends John at a stop light. There is $2,000 damage to each vehicle. John and Mary submit their damages to their own insurers. Each insurer pays for the damages to their own insured vehicles. John does not pay a deductible (he has a $0 DCPD deductible), and Mary pays her $500 Collision deductible. John’s insurance company is not allowed to subrogate against Mary’s insurer. Are there any US states that have the same regulations, in which insurers do not subrogate against at-fault third parties? I’ve been searching, but my GoogleFu is weak today. (Note that I’m only talking about physical damages to a vehicle. Not injuries.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/2 "2008-08-28T20:41:13Z")
[No-Fault insurance in the US.](http://www.autoinsuranceindepth.com/no-fault-insurance.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/3 "2008-08-28T20:42:53Z")
> **[No-fault insurance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_insurance)** > > In its broadest sense, no-fault insurance is any type of insurance contract under which the insured party is indemnified by their own insurance company for losses, regardless of the source of the cause of loss. In this sense, it is similar to first-party coverage. The term "no-fault" is most commonly used in the United States, Australia, and Canada when referring to state or provincial automobile insurance laws where a policyholder and their passengers are reimbursed by the policyholder's own ins... About a dozen states have similar laws. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/4 "2008-08-29T03:46:35Z")
The problem is more people who are broke are driving without insurance. My son got nailed about a week ago by a kid racing another kid. Of course he had no insurance. Our recourse is small claims court with a small limit. If a guy without insurance is involved you get screwed. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/5 "2008-08-29T04:50:48Z")
I did jury-duty for a case involving no-fault insurance in Michigan. A crack-addicted man was struck by a car (while riding a bike) and received a traumatic brain injury. Under no-fault insurance, the driver’s insurance company had to pay for the man’s treatment, basically for the rest of his life. The man’s substance abuse issues and symptoms intensified as a direct result of the brain injury. He was sent to rehab in Florida for a facility specializing in traumatic brain injuries and substance abuse combined. Insurance didn’t want to pay out, so took the brain-injured man to court. (They lost.) ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/6 "2008-08-29T13:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] [No-Fault insurance in the US.](http://www.autoinsuranceindepth.com/no-fault-insurance.html) [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ravenman] > **[No-fault insurance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-fault_insurance)** > > No-fault insurance is any type of insurance contract under which the insured party is indemnified by their own insurance company for losses, regardless of the source of the cause of loss. In this sense, it is similar to first-party coverage. The term "no-fault" is most commonly used in the United States, Australia, and Canada when referring to state or provincial automobile insurance laws where a policyholder and their passengers are reimbursed by the policyholder's own insurance company witho Ho... About a dozen states have similar laws. [/quote] I’m familiar with both those pages but unfortunately neither of them, nor the links they provide, make it expressly clear which states are no-fault for physical damage coverages. Every site I find seems to be focused entirely on injury claims. It’s durn frustrating… ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/7 "2008-08-29T13:21:28Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] The problem is more people who are broke are driving without insurance. My son got nailed about a week ago by a kid racing another kid. Of course he had no insurance. Our recourse is small claims court with a small limit. If a guy without insurance is involved you get screwed. [/QUOTE] I was going to ask why you can’t recover from your uninsured motorist coverage, but I see that it’s optional in Michigan. I assume you’ve checked that possibility? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/8 "2008-09-03T00:15:38Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > I’m familiar with both those pages but unfortunately neither of them, nor the links they provide, make it expressly clear which states are no-fault for physical damage coverages. Every site I find seems to be focused entirely on injury claims. > > It’s durn frustrating… Same site; different page. [http://www.autoinsuranceindepth.com/state-minimums.html](http://www.autoinsuranceindepth.com/state-minimums.html) The last column on the chart identifies states with no-fault. Of course, the provisions of each state’s no-fault laws vary. Just to make it fun. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/9 "2008-09-03T00:19:40Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > I was going to ask why you can’t recover from your uninsured motorist coverage, but I see that it’s optional in Michigan. I assume you’ve checked that possibility? That and you’d still have to demonstrate that your injuries exceed michigan’s verbal threshold for tort liability: Serious impairment of a body function. [http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(eutuffqoygyt4dfi3fba2445)](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(eutuffqoygyt4dfi3fba2445)))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-257-58c&query=on&highlight=serious%20AND%20impairment ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/10 "2008-09-03T00:26:14Z")
Oops. I cited the wrong provision above: [http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5q4znjy3lcs5m345er5mckv0)](http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(5q4znjy3lcs5m345er5mckv0)))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-500-3135 ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/11 "2008-09-04T11:18:52Z")
> [@Dante](#): > > I live in Ontario, and under current insurance rules, in the event of an auto claim, each party recovers the cost of damages to their own vehicle from their own insurer, regardless of fault. Quebec and New Brunswick have similar agreements. > > So let’s say Mary rear-ends John at a stop light. There is $2,000 damage to each vehicle. John and Mary submit their damages to their own insurers. Each insurer pays for the damages to their own insured vehicles. John does not pay a deductible (he has a $0 DCPD deductible), and Mary pays her $500 Collision deductible. John’s insurance company is not allowed to subrogate against Mary’s insurer. > > Are there any US states that have the same regulations, in which insurers do not subrogate against at-fault third parties? I’ve been searching, but my GoogleFu is weak today. > > (Note that I’m only talking about physical damages to a vehicle. Not injuries.) I am not familiar with other states, but in Louisiana, no-fault is voluntary. Of course one gets a break on rates. Here the coverage is for both property and injury. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-any-us-states-have-a-no-fault-agreement-like-ontarios/461600/12 "2008-09-04T15:39:30Z")
Well, as far as I can tell, Michigan is the only state that has something similar to Ontario’s DCPD agreement. Now I need to find out which states are signatories to Ontario’s DCPD agreement. Thanks for the links folks.