# Do away with borders
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [September 11, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238 "2014-09-11T21:15:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/101 "2014-09-13T16:40:02Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> They can’t be fought over because nobody knows exactly where they are
Fuzzy borders are _precisely_ what cause territory wars in the first place. You don’t seem to understand history, international politics, or much anything else about government if you think fuzzy borders can’t be fought over.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/102 "2014-09-13T19:40:20Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> The borders are fuzzy and undefined, they work on an formal/informal level. They can’t be fought over because nobody knows exactly where they are, yet everyone knows they are there somewhere and the people in the state can rest assured that their lives are orderly and they are well governed- thus saving lives and money, and relieving the population of unnecessary existential angst.
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> You get a truckload of commodity A, drive over to the other state and swap it for money or commodity B, then drive back again. Don’t worry about the borders, they are there somewhere, you will recognize the other state when you get there. You might do some trade with the anarchists along the way. You could also drop by and enjoy some weed and a game of skittles with them too - but be sober by the time you get to the other state because they get all BDSM about that kind of thing.
So borders are fuzzy and nobody knows where they are but you’ll know when you enter a “state” because presumably _it_ has borders.
I love one sided borders. They’re like a one sided fence. Trippy.
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### Author:  [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/103 "2014-09-13T19:51:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Studying anarchism by just reading literature written by anarchists is likely to make you deluded. Anarchists only talk about the good side of anarchism and ignore its flaws. (Which is not unique to anarchists. People of all political ideologies do the same.) If you want to get a realistic view of anarchism you need to read both anarchist literature and anti-anarchist literature. Of course, reading literature that disagrees with your personal beliefs and, worst yet, points out the flaws and inconsistencies in your personal beliefs is an unpleasant experience. So most people choose to avoid it. Sticking to just reading more of what you already believe is comforting even if it’s not enlightening.
Sure, and I have done that. I’ve heard/read anti-anarchist lines very, very often. I’ve also studied (among other things) anarchism, and thus it seems to me that hardly anyone here knows what they’re talking about.
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### Author:  [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/104 "2014-09-13T19:52:40Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> So what point might that be?
Anarchists are always concerned with organizing, in a horizontalist, non-hierarchical way. It’s the only way to succeed. Jokes about anarchists and organization are just ignorant.
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 13, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/105 "2014-09-13T23:47:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#):
>
> So borders are fuzzy and nobody knows where they are but you’ll know when you enter a “state” because presumably _it_ has borders.
>
> I love one sided borders. They’re like a one sided fence. Trippy.
Well, you’ll find you’re in the state when you interact with people and see the control they live under, but you won’t know the edges of the patch of land where they do those things, partly because that will always be somewhere other than where you are interacting with the state subject.
Having a one sided border is an interesting idea.
What is the sound of one hand clapping ?
What is the tariff for one sided border crossing ?
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/106 "2014-09-14T00:00:08Z")
Isn’t what we see as matter really mostly empty space anyway ? So isn’t the ground where borders are supposed to lay empty space ? And all the matter in that space is in constant motion and impossible to locate properly, and therefore a border is by nature impossible to really define ?
And who owns the space between the atoms ?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/107 "2014-09-14T00:07:35Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> Isn’t what we see as matter really mostly empty space anyway ? So isn’t the ground where borders are supposed to lay empty space ? And all the matter in that space is in constant motion and impossible to locate properly, and therefore a border is by nature impossible to really define ?
> And who owns the space between the atoms ?
What the fuck are you talking about?
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/108 "2014-09-14T01:03:47Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> Worker owned TV production plant + trade with the states who value the peace dividend the anarchy zones provide.
Oh, so there’s not a tax. There’s just a requirement that you work in the factory. Yes, that will be a lot more popular. Good thing your anarchy zone doesn’t have any oppressive laws like the 13th Amendment.
So they’re communal TV’s. I guess that means when a TV is built, they just give it away. So while the workers might have been forced to provide free labor, somebody still had to pay for the parts that were used to make the TV. Who did that?
And while the TV might be communal, it’s actually located in one person’s house. Who decides who gets to keep the communal TV? Being communal and all, can other people come in to your house whenever they want to watch “their” TV? Or is it only communal in theory?
Overall, I think you should have gone with the anarchy fairy. That seems more plausible.
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/109 "2014-09-14T01:12:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> What the fuck are you talking about?
Wonder if the verbal aggression will be modded ?
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/110 "2014-09-14T01:13:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> There’s just a requirement that you work in the factory.
Requirement ? How about option. I’m not thinking about the sweatshops where people make your stuff.
BTW, who pays for this server ? You ?
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/111 "2014-09-14T01:14:58Z")
“So while the workers might have been forced to provide free labor”
Bit like your mom was forced to cook your dinner.
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### Author:  [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/112 "2014-09-14T02:46:43Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> The governments of the fuzzy non-bordering states can sort that shit out - they don’t want the ingenious new geopolitical arrangement spoiled, and they certainly won’t want Soprano and co imposing border tolls.
Soj your anarchist zone is dependent on a foreign government to solve it’s problems. For free. Right.
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> Requirement ? How about option. I’m not thinking about the sweatshops where people make your stuff.
> BTW, who pays for this server ? You ?
So if people choose to work in factories, they must be getting paid. But there’s no money, because the employees, **Chessic Sense,** Tony Soprano, and everyone else stole it already. Oh, and there’s no money anyways, because the factory is just giving out TV’s for free to “community centers”.
As a Charter Member, **Little Nemo** does in fact pay for this server. So do you, by seeing ads.
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> “So while the workers might have been forced to provide free labor”
>
> Bit like your mom was forced to cook your dinner.
Aren’t you so funny.
Answer me this: why has there never been a successful anarchist country?
PS. My company is still coming to dump radioactive waste in your backyard, then hightail it across the “one way border” and never come back. What are you going to do about it?
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/113 "2014-09-14T03:16:49Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> Requirement ? How about option. I’m not thinking about the sweatshops where people make your stuff.
Option? How does that work? Are you saying they get paid to build TV’s? If so, where does the money to pay them come from? Or do you mean that people have the option of building TV’s for no pay? If that’s the case, you must still be waiting for that first TV to get built.
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> BTW, who pays for this server ? You ?
Yes, me. I pay an annual membership fee here.
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/114 "2014-09-14T04:14:42Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#):
>
> Soj your anarchist zone is dependent on a foreign government to solve it’s problems. For free. Right.
>
> So if people choose to work in factories, they must be getting paid. But there’s no money, because the employees, **Chessic Sense,** Tony Soprano, and everyone else stole it already. Oh, and there’s no money anyways, because the factory is just giving out TV’s for free to “community centers”.
>
> As a Charter Member, **Little Nemo** does in fact pay for this server. So do you, by seeing ads.
>
> Aren’t you so funny.
>
> Answer me this: why has there never been a successful anarchist country?
>
> PS. My company is still coming to dump radioactive waste in your backyard, then hightail it across the “one way border” and never come back. What are you going to do about it?
Yawn, there you go again with the lazy, proves nothing, repetitive nonsense.
I use adblock. I didn’t even know there were ads.
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/115 "2014-09-14T04:18:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Yes, me. I pay an annual membership fee here.
Ah, wait, I get it - you want your money’s worth by creating something to mirror your own mentality back to you ?
In other words, this is your intellectual brothel, and you want your mental kinks satisfied ?
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/116 "2014-09-14T04:25:54Z")
“Bit like your mom was forced to cook your dinner.” “Aren’t you so funny.”
Is that a sulk ?
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### Author:  [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/117 "2014-09-14T04:27:26Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Answer me this: why has there never been a successful anarchist country?
Because anarchists don’t make countries ?
Why has there never been marmalade made from rocks ?
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### Author:  [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/118 "2014-09-14T04:51:44Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> You could also drop by and enjoy some weed and a game of skittles with them too - but be sober by the time you get to the other state because they get all **BDSM** about that kind of thing.
(emphasis added)
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> Ah, wait, I get it - you want your money’s worth by creating something to mirror your own mentality back to you ?
> In other words, this is your intellectual brothel, and you want your mental kinks satisfied ?
Between the thinking that SDMB is a place to satisfy mental kinks and your previous post (which is a serious WTF), I’m begging to think that there may be some unresolved issues here.
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### Author:  [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/119 "2014-09-14T04:54:45Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> Because anarchists don’t make countries ?
> Why has there never been marmalade made from rocks ?
OK, why has there never been a successful anarchist region? Why has every de facto anarchy degenerated into a pit of hell, _a la_ Afghanistan after the US invasion, Somalia, DROC, et al?
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### Author:  [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)
#### Post date: [September 14, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-away-with-borders/698238/120 "2014-09-14T04:56:32Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#):
>
> “Bit like your mom was forced to cook your dinner.” “Aren’t you so funny.”
>
> Is that a sulk ?
No, it’s more the fact that you don’t realize that almost everyone here is an adult and lives alone (or with their family). Basically, you tried to make a joke, but it was a) incorrect, b) not funny and c)insulting. Ergo, “aren’t you so funny”.
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