# Do birds have heart attacks and fall dead out of the sky? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565 "2008-05-16T16:45:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/1 "2008-05-16T16:45:20Z")
I found myself wondering about a dead ovenbird I saw this morning in front of an apartment building. The thing was not long dead, and had not been predated, nor nibbled at after the fact. I know lots of migrating birds meet the end by smacking into highrises at night, but I didn’t think that would be the case here. In the first place, the building is in brick and only three stories high, and in the second place, the bird was not right up against the foot of the building. So my question, in sum, is whether birds are liable to those falling-down-dead maladies that humans get – heart attacks, strokes, aneurysms? Or is it vastly more likely that the bird in question _did_ hit the building at night and just bounce a little? Bonus birdwatching question: do you get to add a bird to your life list if you only see it dead? ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/2 "2008-05-16T17:26:08Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] Bonus birdwatching question: do you get to add a bird to your life list if you only see it dead? [/QUOTE] Now _that_ is an interesting question. I once released a common loon that had been treated by a wildlife center. I released the bird around sunrise onto a lake. As I was hiking back to my car, I overheard people commenting on seeing the (for the area) rare bird. Birder friends of mine argued about whether or not it would count had they seen the loon and later found out its story. IIRC there was never an agreed upon solution to the question. As far as birds experiencing problems that would cause sudden death, I believe the answer to be yes. I have gotten back histopathology reports listing things similar to stroke/aneurysm in caged birds found dead on the bottom of their cage. For a wild bird, significant pathology prior to death would make flight difficult, and predation more likely. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/3 "2008-05-16T17:26:25Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] So my question, in sum, is whether birds are liable to those falling-down-dead maladies that humans get – heart attacks, strokes, aneurysms? Or is it vastly more likely that the bird in question _did_ hit the building at night and just bounce a little? [/quote] It’s vastly more likely it hit the building. Most wild birds don’t like long enough to die of ailments of old age. It may not have been migrating but simply hit a glass window. Depending on the angle, it could have rebounded > [@](#): > > Bonus birdwatching question: do you get to add a bird to your life list if you only see it dead? No. According to the listing rules of the American Birding Association, to count a bird must be alive and unrestrained (not in captivity or in a net or someone’s hand) when first seen. Eggs don’t count either. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/4 "2008-05-16T17:49:51Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] Now _that_ is an interesting question. I once released a common loon that had been treated by a wildlife center. I released the bird around sunrise onto a lake. As I was hiking back to my car, I overheard people commenting on seeing the (for the area) rare bird. Birder friends of mine argued about whether or not it would count had they seen the loon and later found out its story. IIRC there was never an agreed upon solution to the question. [/QUOTE] Here’s the [rules according to the American Birding Association:](http://www.americanbirding.org/bigday/rules.pdf) > [@](#): > > B. “Wild”means that the bird’s occurrence at the time and place of observation is not because it, or its recent ancestors, has ever been transported or otherwise assisted by man. Since the bird’s presence on the lake was due to you putting it there, it would not have been countable according to the rules. However, if the bird had been captured on the lake, held in captivity, and then released in the same place, the following rules would apply: > [@](#): > > C. “Unrestrained”means not held captive in a cage, trap, mistnet, hand, or by any other means and not under the influence of such captivity. A bird is considered under the influence of captivity after its release until it regains the activities and movements of a bird which has not been captured. > (i) A bird is under the influence of captivity during its initial flight away from its release point and during subsequent activity reasonably influenced by the captivity, such as initial perching and preening or early sleeping or roosting near the release point. > … > > (iii) A wild bird that is injured, sick, oiled, or otherwise incapacitated, but which retains a reasonable freedom of movement, may be counted. > … > D. “When observed”means that a bird alive and unrestrained when observed, but which later dies or is collected or captured, may be counted. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/5 "2008-05-16T18:09:50Z")
Thanks! Maybe I can maintain two parallel lists, a life list and a death list. In any case, I had never seen an ovenbird before. It’s a beautiful little bird. Sad to think it came all the way from parts south only to meet an inglorious end here. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/6 "2008-05-16T18:14:40Z")
Thanks **Colibri**! My personal ignorance has been fought back. 😉 (and thanks to **Sal** for an interesting question) ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/7 "2008-05-16T18:27:52Z")
Back when the West Nile virus was beginning to rage in the Midwest I saw a crow fall dead out of a tree. It was quite sad…a number of his or her fellows soon gathered in the nearby trees and caw’d up a storm. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/8 "2008-05-16T18:45:50Z")
[QUOTE=fiddlesticks] Back when the West Nile virus was beginning to rage in the Midwest I saw a crow fall dead out of a tree. It was quite sad…a number of his or her fellows soon gathered in the nearby trees and caw’d up a storm. [/QUOTE] So, you witnessed a murder? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/9 "2008-05-16T18:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=vetbridge] So, you witnessed a murder? [/QUOTE] Truly awful puns like that drive me stork raven mad. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/10 "2008-05-16T19:03:10Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Truly awful puns like that drive me stork raven mad. [/QUOTE] It ought to be a cardinal sin. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/11 "2008-05-16T20:08:04Z")
Here comes another bird pun!!! DUCK!!! ---
**Author:** ![Duhkecco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8491ac/32.png) [@Duhkecco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duhkecco)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/12 "2008-05-16T20:31:48Z")
Well, you won’t hear a peep from me. Or a quack … Or a quack … ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/13 "2008-05-16T22:25:16Z")
When I’m standing before the pearly gates, I hope St. Peter will note that\* none of this was my fault\*! ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/14 "2008-05-17T01:30:53Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Truly awful puns like that drive me stork raven mad. [/QUOTE] Thank you. I was worried nobody would get it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/15 "2008-05-17T02:29:34Z")
I want to post a pun here, but I’m too chicken. I’m afraid it might turn out to be a turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/16 "2008-05-17T03:11:09Z")
I’d like to post a pun, too, but I’m afraid I’d just be parroting someone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/17 "2008-05-17T03:59:32Z")
I saw a bird commit suicide once. I was walking down a sidewalk on Commonwealth Ave in the Brighton area of Boston one day. I felt some wind and then a medium sized bird landed on my shoulder for just a couple of seconds and then launched itself into traffic right under the wheels of a passing car. I looked at the road and there was just a stain with just a few feathers remaining. I didn’t have enough time to talk him out of it. I have no idea if it was an avian mental health issue, problems at the nest, or fermented grain abuse problems but it was very dramatic and sad. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/18 "2008-05-17T04:40:10Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] I saw a bird commit suicide once. I was walking down a sidewalk on Commonwealth Ave in the Brighton area of Boston one day. I felt some wind and then a medium sized bird landed on my shoulder for just a couple of seconds and then launched itself into traffic right under the wheels of a passing car. I looked at the road and there was just a stain with just a few feathers remaining. I didn’t have enough time to talk him out of it. I have no idea if it was an avian mental health issue, problems at the nest, or fermented grain abuse problems but it was very dramatic and sad. [/QUOTE] At least you were there to give him a shoulder to land on when he needed one. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/19 "2008-05-17T15:28:27Z")
Not a bird but I saw a fly expire once. It was a lazy summer day and I was curled up in a chair in the living room. One of those big, fat flies was orbiting the room, just flying in an oval a couple feet out from the walls, about six feet up. Suddenly the pitch of its drone changed and I looked up to see the fly’s path curve down to vertical and end at the floor. I got up and it was lying on its back in a classic dead insect pose. Fetching a matchstick, I poked at it a couple times eliciting no response. I’ve found flies after they were dead, and I’ve murdered more than a few myself, but that was the first and only time I witnessed one transitioning to the choir invisible on its own. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565/20 "2008-05-17T16:48:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Do birds have heart attacks and fall dead out of the sky? Wolfman Jack, outlaw radio host, spoke of this. When he was broadcasting off an overpowered Mexican AM station, the birds allegedly would fly too close to the antenna tower, & the huge output would put them into cardiac arrest. Several other border station have reported this, ever since the 1930s. I cite Fowler & Crawford’s _Border Radio_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-birds-have-heart-attacks-and-fall-dead-out-of-the-sky/449565.md?page=2)