# Do black-belt martial artists have to register their hands as lethal weapons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2001, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351 "2001-05-24T03:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2001, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/21 "2001-05-24T17:18:46Z")
Heh. Since I have training in Uechi Ryu would this mean I’d have to register my elbows and shins as deadly weapons? 😃 STAND BACK!!! HE HAS AN ELBOW AND HE KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!! ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2001, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/22 "2001-05-24T21:59:39Z")
just for the record, the legend is that they have to “register their body as a lethal weapon” not “register their hands” … so it is their body we’re talking about here. Hands, feet, legs, etc. Of course the whole thing is BS, but to debunk it on the theory that “why would you only have to register your hands” isn’t accurate. Even in ConAir his body was a registered lethal weapon, not his hands. ---
**Author:** ![dave316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dave316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dave316)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/23 "2001-05-24T23:47:08Z")
once you start registering your hands how far off is registering feet? than the Government will want you to register your whole body, this sounds to me like the start of a Police State. First you register your hands than the Government will take them away , well I’m not going to let them ! they can take my hands when they pry them from my cold dead fingers ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/24 "2001-05-25T00:53:45Z")
then the democrats will want “Martial artist control” and sneaky ways to close the “karate-show loopholes” … the right to bear arms means what is says, dammit. The right to bear arms - and fists of fury! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SpinneZiege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SpinneZiege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpinneZiege)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/25 "2001-05-25T02:30:14Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\* ie, you can’t indiscriminantly go around kicking the crap out of people - you will be held to a higher standard that your average shmoe butt kicker._\* In most places, assault is illegal, no matter how much kung fu you know. I know about the “reasonable force” thing, but by law you are actually required to run if you’re attacked and can only fight back if cornered (in Pennsylvania at least). Oh, yeah, **Kalt** , **dave316** : Canada doesn’t have a Second Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Llardball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f6c823/32.png) [@Llardball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llardball)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/26 "2001-05-25T03:36:12Z")
I remember hearing at one point that Mike Tyson was going to get arrested for assault with a deadly weapon when he started punching some guy after a traffic accident. Am I mistaken? Or was he just going to get arrested for assault? I don’t know about being a black belt, but if you are a professional fighter, can’t you be penalized more for beating someone than if you are just Joe Schmoe? Virtually any force used by a professional fighter would be excessive, no? ---
**Author:** ![NeutronJack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/neutronjack/32/4134_2.png) [@NeutronJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeutronJack)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/27 "2001-05-25T03:40:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > **Apparently, in the US (but NOT in Canada), if you have a black belt in a martial art you have to register yourself as a weapon?** You have to register your hands, just like you have to register **any** deadly weapon. I had to register my axe, and my chain saw, all of my steak knives, my dog, the poisonous chemicals that I use on the lawn, any piece of rope long enough to hang somebody, … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/28 "2001-05-25T03:43:33Z")
And if you want to see a previous discussion of the subject: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46962](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46962) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/29 "2001-05-25T12:14:55Z")
Kalt: \<\< The right to bear arms - and fists of fury! \>\> Surely, this is the case of the right to bare arms? And surely, Kalt, your accusation that the Democrats will seek arms control is made a little off-handedly, don’t you think? After all, disarmament treaties have been signed by lots of countries. So where’s Captain Hook, when the Republicans really need him? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_Ultimate\_Scapegoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ultimate_Scapegoat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/30 "2001-05-25T13:57:19Z")
This is one of those “urban legends”. I think it comes from boxers having to get licensed, and from there it somehow turned into “getting their hands registered”. I’ve heard this in pro wrestling too, where a Japanese wrestler was doing a karate gimmick, and the announcer says “his hands are registered weapons” blah blah blah. I’m sure the karate school promoters out there don’t have a problem perpetuating this myth as well. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/31 "2001-05-25T14:09:12Z")
What do Sumo wrestlers register? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/32 "2001-05-25T14:53:22Z")
I have heard that there was such a thing in Japan. However, I am disinclined to believe the following story I heard from a drunk Marine in college: \*\*Sometime in 1989-1990, a couple of Marines were messing with an old Japanese man in a bar in Okinawa. The old man produced a laminated card and flashed it in front of the Marines. The card was written all in Japanese, but the old man explained, in broken English, that the holder of such a card was registered as a deadly weapon, and that he had to present his attacker with the card three times before he could defend himself. One of the Marines slapped the card out of the old man’s hand. To the howling of the other servicemen, the old man picked up the card and presented it a second time. The card was again slapped to the floor. The old man again picked up the card, then shoved it into the slapper’s face the final third time – upon which the old man gave a bar full of Marines the Mr. Miyagi treatment. Supposedly, the old man left the bar unscathed.\*\* Good story, though. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/33 "2001-05-25T16:12:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*And remember, “black belt” really doesn’t mean that much. Any schmoe with $20 can order a black martial arts belt from a sports catalog, and many schmoes with “martial arts schools” are more than happy to give one to a ten year old who can’t do 50 push-ups as long as you keep the checks coming. The only art where there is some sort of standard as far as belts go is Judo, AFAIK. With anything else, the only way to judge a person’s skill is to watch them perform their art. > > \*\* Something else to keep in mind is that a black belt, even from a reputable school, doesn’t mean you’re a killing machine. It means you’re at a point in your training where you have mastered the fundamentals and can begin learning for real. It means your body and mind are finally in the proper condition for learning how to fight. To make an analogy: Knowing the alphabet and how to spell doesn’t make you a poet or a novelist. Your black belt in english comes somewhere around 8th or 10th grade, when your vocabulary is acceptable and you have a basic grounding in spelling and grammar. Once you have your black belt, then you start learning meter, rhyme, etc, and the basics of poetry. Shakespeare wasn’t simply your run of the mill black belt, he was more like a 5th Dan (or whatever grade is “super high” in your school of choice). ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/34 "2001-05-25T16:31:16Z")
…god, not another “old okinawan man in a bar” story–there’s a million of those. That’s got to be one of the better ones I’ve heard, though. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/35 "2001-05-25T20:00:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* > . > As they say, with increased power comes increased responsibility > \*\* Isn’t it: “With _great_ power comes _great_ responsibility” -_Stan Lee_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![liebfels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/0ea827/32.png) [@liebfels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liebfels)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2001, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/36 "2001-05-25T20:30:08Z")
Don’t know about registering hands as lethal weapons, but in Texas a defendant can be charged with using a hand as a deadly weapon. In the Texas Penal Code, Section 1.07(17) > [@](#): > > ``` > (17) "Deadly weapon" means: > (A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or > (B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury. > > ``` Under the second definition, defendants have been charged with use of hands or feet as deadly weapons. A really fast search found two recent Texas cases with references to such allegations: Diaz v. State, 994 S.W.2d 374 (Tex. Crim. App. 1999) and Castillo v. State, 7 S.W.3d 253 (Tex. Crim. App. 1999). So, people like martial artists and boxers do run a risk of facing greater punishment, but anyone committed to using a hand or foot to hurt someone runs that same risk. ---
**Author:** ![SpinneZiege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@SpinneZiege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpinneZiege)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/37 "2001-05-26T03:40:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cisco \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > > \*\* > > . > > As they say, with increased power comes increased responsibility > > \*\* > > Isn’t it: “With _great_ power comes _great_ responsibility” -_Stan Lee_ > > 😃 \*\* Didn’t Uncle Ben say that? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2001, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/38 "2001-05-26T04:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* > Basically, to use deadly force you have to believe that you will die unless you take action. Having a black belt makes that less likely. > > As they say, with increased power comes increased responsibility to use it appropriately. > \*\* In the United States it can vary from state to state. In Texas blows to the head, neck, throat, and spine are considered deadly force whether or not the attacker is armed. Also deadly force is not limited to attacks that might kill but attacks that might also maim. So any threat to life and limb would be considered deadly force. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2001, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/39 "2001-05-26T04:52:37Z")
> [@](#): > > once you start registering your hands how far off is registering feet? mind you, some of the roommates I’ve had - I might have supported that approach, relying on the Geneva Convention respecting Chemical Warfare… ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2001, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351/40 "2001-05-26T05:00:09Z")
Obviously, it’s ridiculous to believe thhe basic premise of “Con Air”- that a heroic soldier would be sentenced to a lengthy term in a federal prison for killing an armed thug in a clear case of self-defense. (Even if a soldier were arrested and sentenced to prison for such a crime, it would have been at the STATE level!) But come on, the writers were in a bind. SOMEHOW, they had to get a hero on board that airplane. How the heck were they supposed to explain a good guy being on that plane, surrounded by scum? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-black-belt-martial-artists-have-to-register-their-hands-as-lethal-weapons/66351.md?page=3)